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Politics

with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

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ssd · 21/07/2014 10:26

its not bullshit myfairyking, its plain common sense

has anyone answered my op saying where are the Palestinian people supposed to go, just before they are shelled/fired on, as they are being told by Netanyahu? I'd appreciate an answer.

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BeCool · 21/07/2014 10:29

It is bigger than defending their state though - there is no equality between different races/religions within Israel. Life in Israel is effectively a version of apartheid for Palestinians.

Israel is massively rich and backed by the USA - the Palestinians are largely poor, without power, money or wealthy backers. There is massive inequality.

I don't condone terrorism at all, but I do understand that people will fight back, however they can.

The Israeli settlement of the West Bank etc was entirely arrogant and antagonistic - they want it all for themselves and they just want the Palestinians to disappear. They won't. They can't. Would you?

explains the current situation very well I feel.
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ssd · 21/07/2014 10:50

good video

mellicauli, from your quite above

"That we cannot rely on others to keep us safe."

so what are the US doing then?

I think this quote is more suited to the Palestinians

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 10:51

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 10:51

ssd Again, you are conflating Zionism with Judaism. There are not one and the same. Perhaps it is useful to think before you attack an entire ethnicity based on the actions of the Israeli government over a land way.

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 10:51

*war not way

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Lilka · 21/07/2014 11:39

Attacking all Jews because of the actions of the Israeli government is horrible. It is bullshit, prejudiced bullshit, in the same way as demanding to know what lessons black people have learnt from slavery is prejudiced bullshit. Learning lessons is not what the victims of atrocities do, it's what the perpatrators do. The legacy of violence and aggression is "ours" (as in non-Jewish European).

And no, I don't support the actions of the Israeli government at all.

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BeCool · 21/07/2014 11:50

I get your point re Jews not equaling Israelis.

HOWEVER the Israeli govt describes Israel as JEWISH state. The law in Israel incorporated Jewish laws as well as civil and common law, the nation anthem is sung in Hebrew and the Emblem of the state of Israel is a menorah (a symbol of Judaism since ancient times).

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 11:55

If peaceful Jewish people do not want to be judged on Israel they need to be a bit more vocal in their opinions about Israel, most of the Jews I know are pro-Israel.

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Lilka · 21/07/2014 11:59

Why is it every Jewish person's responsibility to speak out against Israel? That's so stupid. I think plenty of Jews living in Britain etc, would feel pretty offended at the idea that their religion/heritage somehow means they have an obligation to loudly speak/work against a country they've never been to and never will go to.

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Yruapita · 21/07/2014 12:03

Killing all Palestinians because Israeli regime does not like Hamas is also bullshit. In fact it is a violation of international law.

Look into Israeli policies, you will see apartheid in action that's if you don't already see it.

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 12:04

No it is not stupid, it is their responsibility like it is every white Americans responsibility to speak out about injustices from white people towards black people in America.

People have a different opinion on responsibility, but this is how I feel about it.

I am sick of reading pro-Israeli posts from my Jewish friends who have never been there, I am sick of reading things like 'all culture in Europe died in Auschwitz as if only Jewish people have any merit.

Israel was built as a Jewish state, if Jewish people don't like how it is behaving they need to speak out. Just like the Catholics should be speaking out about the actions of the Vatican and the awful behaviour of nuns and priests in the Catholic church.

You can wash your hands all you want, but its a bit much to assume nobody will judge you for it.

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Latara · 21/07/2014 12:06

Should Muslims then be vocal about being against Al-Qaeda just because they are Muslims too?

Of course not that doesn't make sense!

So Jews around the world should not have to be vocal about Israel's actions.

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Latara · 21/07/2014 12:10

For example my Gran's Jewish neighbour who is a 90 yr old D Day veteran should not 'have to' be vocal about Israel's atrocities when he is an atheist Jew who knows nothing much about Israel in the first place!

Oh and by the way only my Gran will talk to him out of the entire block of flats. Guess why - because he's Jewish. This is in 21st century Britain!

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Lilka · 21/07/2014 12:13

I wonder how much time you spent this last year speaking out and educating people about the atrocities committed by the British Empire? How many people have you educated? What are you (actively) doing about the legacy of Imperialism today? Don't shirk your obligations.

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 12:17

I am pretty vocal about the British Empire actually.

As I am about womens rights, racial rights and anything else I feel strongly about.

Any Jew who can look at the reasons for Israel's conception and say 'not my problem' is shirking their responsibilities. As is anyone who calls themselves Catholics and takes no responsibilities for the actions of that religious group.

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BeCool · 21/07/2014 12:18

Why wouldn't a Jewish person, living in Britain or elsewhere, want to speak out about Israel and it's deplorable actions? Especially if it's not a religion/heritage issue! Why wouldn't you have an opinion about it? This issue has been ongoing and ever deteriorating my entire life and longer - how can I ignore it?

Why why wouldn't most people, regardless of their race or religion, with even a tiny degree of awareness of the situation want to speak out about it?

Because they think it's right?
Because they can't be arsed to form an opinion?
Because you don't even have to take sides to say "this sucks and is wrong let's stop it now?"
Because international pressure never lead to any change at all?
Because the Israelis's are backed by the USA and they can do what they want?
Because they don't believe that the Palestinian's Human Rights are abused and ignored every single day for years and years?

What exactly does it take for someone to say "this is nothing to do with me and further more I have no intention to go on holiday there so I have no opinion about it"?

I've never been to South Africa - did I speak out about apartheid? Yes of course I did. Guess you didn't Lilka? Nothing to do with you is it? So why would you have an opinion or voice about it?

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Lilka · 21/07/2014 12:30

An opinion is not the same thing as spending all your time bring vocal, and placing a particular obligation on someone because of their religion that you aren't placing on everyone else is prejudice. What exactly should Latara's Gran's neighbour be doing?

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JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 12:30

Of course, ALL English people, while busily protesting against Israel, are protesting against Russia, Syria, China, Iraq, and all the states who commit humans rights abuses across the world.

ALL English women are busily protesting against the countries that abuse women's rights. Every single day for years and years.

No?

Then they should be ashamed of themselves.

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trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 12:34

I'm not going to add too much more to this because I don't want to get sucked in to an argument - but I think this war will only end when Israel is wiped off the map by its enemies. It will never give up.

I also think the reason there is no intervention in Israel is to do with their backing from the USA, rather than people feeling sad for poor little Jews Hmm

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 12:51

Nobody has said anything about spending 'all your time' being vocal about something, simply that Jews SHOULD be vocal about it. It is a massive human rights issue and it is being done IN THE NAME OF JEWS!

I was pretty vocal about the Iraq war because it was a human rights issue committed in my name, I hang my head in shame about it actually.

I wish Israel didn't exist, I think it makes my life and my childrens lives more dangerous, leads to extremism in the middle east and even worse, is funded by Western governments and companies.

I am ashamed that my country supports it and that I could be deemed to have anything at all to do with it because of the colour of my skin.

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 13:03

You want me to be vocal? How? Where? On Facebook/Twitter? No fucking way. It's not where I air my political, religious or personal views, it's where I chat with my friends and remain in contact with people from abroad. I don't blog and I'm not a journalist or news reporter, so my views will never be published in mainstream media.

Why is it my responsibility to air my views just because I was born to a Jewish mother?!

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BeCool · 21/07/2014 13:08

it's not only your responsibility MyFairy - it is all our responsibility.

Surely you do you have an opinion on the situation in Israel/Palestine? Or you wouldn't be on this thread?

Where do you air your other views? MN? Anywhere else?
Do you take action or have a voice about anything going on in the world ever?

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LastTango · 21/07/2014 13:12

Read abut the blockade of Palestine after WWII. The Jews were treated inhumanely by us and I don't blame them for defending themselves now.

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 13:12

Exactly BeCool Some of us are reporters/policy makers/bloggers etc etc

some of us are just part of the general collective, if the opinion of the general collective if great enough, then it will change the world.

Just saying 'I'm alright jack, fuck the rest of them' as some people on this thread seem to be doing, is not going to change a single thing.

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