with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

[ssd]

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

spongeypop - just read that you said your Jewish friends' children are posting pictures of dead Arab children.

People on social media often post pictures of dead Arab children, as you put it - but I have never come across one that wasn't posted by a grieving/angry Muslim or supporter of the Palestinian cause, to express disgust.

Seriously, are you have friends whose children post pictures of dead children and...what? Gloat? Say what about them?

I've never come across anyone like this. Unless they are posting them to express sadness, then you seriously have some psycho friends.

How can you be friends with someone like this? And why are you friends with all your friends' kids anyway?

Sorry, I just don't believe it. Either you choose to hang out with a bunch of psychos, or you're making it up.

PigletJohn -

(You may notice the false debating trick, especially popular on Mumsnet:

"I can overtly and specifically criticise British Jews but if anyone accuses me of being anti-Semitic, I can always use that well-known get-out clause, that anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism. Works every time. Even though British Jews have got bugger all to do with Israel. )

So if somebody is committing atrocities and war crimes, it is fine for others to do so?

No piglet John, I would happily criticize any acts of the state of Israel and I'm not anti-semitic.

I think anyone who insists of criticizing the state of Israel with extremist language - "they are all inhumane, they all hate Palestinians, they all support child murder, they are educated to see the Palestinians as 'other'" etc, etc, as they have done on this thread is not looking for peace. They are looking to escalate tensions. If I said Palestinians were like that - there would be an outcry - and rightly so!

And anyone who is massively critical ONLY of Israel while not giving a shit about terrible things going on in the rest of the world right now, well, yeah, maybe, there is a whiff of something else going on.

200 children dead in Syria this month alone, I don't see any Muslims being harangued to condemn it. 300 dead shot dead over Russia/Ukraine - my (1) Russian friend doesn't seem very apologetic.

topbanana ""I can overtly and specifically criticise British Jews "

I have seen people criticise supporters of Israel's killings and oppression. I haven't seen anybody criticise British Jews for being Jews

Be so kind as to point out where you have seen that.

spongeypop -

"Why are you so aggressive, topbanana?

I am not attacking British Jews, several times I have said I find their posting of Pro Israeli propaganda on FB distasteful especially as their children are posting pictures of dead arab children.

This only serves to entice hate here."

And your posts advance the peace process how? In what way precisely does trying to label all British Jews as psycho nutters "advance the peace process? I find that pretty "distasteful", actually.

DogCalledRudis - you tell me.

According to some on this thread, Israeli actions justify Hamas sending rockets during humanitarian ceasefires. Repeatedly.

No, I don't get it either.

PigletJohn - please tell me why British Jews are being mentioned AT ALL on a thread about the Israeli-Palestinian situation.

I have never understood why Jews have been treated differently at any point in history...why are they singled out???

What is so different about Jews in comparison to all the other religions there are.

topbanana "PigletJohn - please tell me why British Jews are being mentioned AT ALL on a thread about the Israeli-Palestinian situation."

If you mean they are being mentioned solely because of the ethic origin, I have no idea.

If you wanted to know "why are people who support Israel's killings and oppression being mentioned" I could probably help.

This isn't about Jews ffs. I'm a British jew and have not been offended by any comments on this thread. It's the apologists who are frothing and turning this onto a debate about Jews.

Why do supporters of the regime label any photos from the war scenes as propaganda and enticing hate? The world needs to see these photos and videos. The palestinians are in a prison. Showing the world their oppression is part of their fight.

Israel is fuming that these photos and videos are getting out. They should be spread far and wide. And similarly it is important to show the families of bereaved israeli soldiers and the effect of war in Israel (including the cheering morons, those arrested for protesting in tel aviv, the peace loving kibbutz inhabitants etc.

somewheresafe - which 'supporter of the regime' (do you mean Israel?) is objecting to photos being shown?

The only person who objected to photos being posted was spongeypop, who didn't like her mythical Jewish FB friends posting them. Not seen anyone else objecting.

very interestingly, Top Banana has only said that one of these is not "hate speech"

"In your opinion, is it hate speech to mention the Occupied Territories and illegal settlements (colonies)?

Is it hate speech to mention the Israeli blockade?

Is it hate speech to mention water abstraction? Or bombing of sewage works?

Is it hate speech to mention Education spend?

Is it hate speech to mention destruction of solar panels in Arab villages inside Israel which have no mains electricity?

Is it hate speech to mention collective punishment applied to people based on their ethnic origin?

Is it hate speech to mention firing shells at children playing on a beach? Is it hate speech to say that cancelling a party is so far removed from this that it is offensive to raise it?"

In my opinion, Hamas is the result, not the cause. When people are oppressed and kept in sub-human conditions, of course they become half-savage in the criminal element is thriving. And nobody loves an occupant.

PigletJohn - no, for the record, none of the others are hate speech.

Derr.

DogCalledRudis - we could argue till the cows came home who was the chicken and who was the egg.

It doesn't get us much nearer peace.

MostlyMama - a serious answer to your question - in my opinion (and I'm sure others would disagree), anti-Semitism is mainly down to three things.

One, that Christianity for many centuries espoused the view that all Jews were to blame for the killing of Christ. The Catholic Church only changed its stance on that in the 1960s. So that underlay a lot of Christan anti-Semitism and made Jews a convenient scapegoat throughout the ages. Certainly, Nazism picked up on a lot of iconography of Jews that clearly came via the Catholic Church.

Two, Judaism, unlike Islam or Christianity, is not an evangelising religion. There is no duty on Jews to spread the faith and no concept that those who are not Jewish are headed for eternal damnation. As a result, there are not many Jews! So not a very powerful religion numerically and easy to pick on.

Thirdly, since the fall of Jerusalem and Jews being exiled from Israel, Jews have not had their own country to live in. So most Jews have had to live in other countries where they are a tiny minority and are therefore pretty powerless and easy to attack. Handy for people who want a scapegoat.

There are other reasons, but those are probably the main ones.

Dog called Rudis, how good of someone who:
has a skinhead partner and has Mein Kampf on display in the living room
to add your erudite opinion to this thread.

We need a ceasefire, and we need everyone to work together for peace.

So what is this hate speech about Jews that is separate from criticism of people who perform or support killing and oppression?

JohnFarleysRuskin

Wow, i just love how you picked up on that. Weird souvenirs definetly attract attention

I did. I remember the anti-semites very well. :)

Yeah, i feel sorry for innocent Palestinian civilians. What a horrible anti-semite i am. Just love this kind of logic.

Yup, of course, that's why I've called you an anti-semite.

Not because of your skinhead DP - not because you display Mein Kampf in the living room and not because of your comments about the holocaust.

Love the logic. :)

(You do know Mumsnet has a search facility, right?)

MILLYmo0se - Slightly off the point, but can anyone recommend a book about Israel/setting up of the state/the issues involved, something basic enough for someone starting off from a pretty low knowledge base .

I found Martin Gilbert's "Israel: A History" very readable, although it is a bit of a doorstopper. Eugene Rogan's The Arabs also has a chapter on Palestine, more from the Arab perspective. Tom Segev is also very readable. There are doubtless many other books, both long and short, as well. Wikipedia is also a good place to start.