The EU. In or out?

[PetiteRaleuse]

If there were a snap vote tomorrow. In or out?

[claig]

No because the elite all think the same because they are all told to think the same.

Farage is different to them, he is independent and they are dependent and that is why they don't like him and try to attack hm and his party.

They all believe (or say they do) in catastrophic climate change and Farage calls their bluff. They all believe in the European Project and Farage calls their bluff. They are all united in the EU's sanctions and recognising the coup that overthrew the elected President of Ukraine and Farage called their bluff and said "the EU has blood on its hands over Ukraine".

Farage is the opposite of them in many matters and that is why the public turned out in their millions to vote UKIP and caused an earthquake and that is why they are all united against him and UKIP.

If Farage was part of the elite, they would welcome him with open arms and their lackeys in the media would not be set on him, but would praise him.

[claig]

Le Pen is also not part of the elite and that is why they are all against her, even though the French people chose her.

"Germany's Schäuble Calls France's National Front Victory 'A Disaster'"

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304587704579588273241292020

It is a "disaster" if people don't vote the way the elite would like. And the reason it is a disaster is because of what Le Pen said

"SPIEGEL: Do you want to destroy Europe?

Le Pen: I want to destroy the EU, not Europe! I believe in a Europe of nation-states. I believe in Airbus and Ariane, in a Europe based on cooperation. But I don't want this European Soviet Union.

SPIEGEL: The EU is a vast project for peace. It has helped ensure 70 years without war on the Continent.

Le Pen: No. Europe is war. Economic war. It is the increase of hostilities between the countries. Germans are denigrated as being cruel, the Greeks as fraudsters, the French as lazy. Ms. Merkel can't travel to any European country without being protected by hundreds of police. That is not brotherhood.

SPIEGEL: You now intend to head to Brussels only to fight the system.

Le Pen: And why not? The EU is deeply harmful, it is an anti-democratic monster. I want to prevent it from becoming fatter, from continuing to breathe, from grabbing everything with its paws and from extending its tentacles into all areas of our legislation. In our glorious history, millions have died to ensure that our country remains free. Today, we are simply allowing our right to self-determination to be stolen from us."

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interview-with-french-front-national-leader-marine-le-pen-a-972925.html

The elite are anti Le Pen because she opposes their plans.

[BitOutOfPractice]

Is there a shake it all about option?

[claig]

"SPIEGEL: Do you really want France to leave the euro?

Le Pen: I have been saying that since the French presidential election campaign. It is a difficult issue and I have taken a big risk. I know very well that the political classes have spread fear among the electorate: Without the euro, the sun will cease shining, the rivers will stop flowing, we will enter an ice age …

SPIEGEL: An end to the euro would surely lead to an economic disaster.

Le Pen: I don't believe that at all. It would be an unbelievable opportunity. If we don't all leave the euro behind, it will explode. Either there will be a popular revolt because the people no longer want to be bled out. Or the Germans will say: Stop, we can't pay for the poor anymore."


Le Pen represents an earthquake and that is why the elite are against her and annoyed that the French voters voted for her in such large numbers.

[claig]

"In an interview with German news magazine Der Spiegel, Le Pen said she had respect for leaders who defended their country's interests and added that Merkel's policies were good for Germany, though they would hurt others.

"I think (Putin) puts the interests of Russia and the Russian people first so in this regard I have the same amount of respect for him as for Ms Merkel," she said in the interview.

"A lot of things are said about Russia because for years it has been demonised on U.S. orders. It should be one of the great characteristics of a European country to form its own opinion and not to see everything from the perspective of the U.S."

www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/01/us-france-lepen-idUSKBN0EC1ES20140601

The elite don't like this kind of thing.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I read the interviews with Marine Le Pen. Her manifesto is v similar to ukip's 2010 manifesto. But make no mistake, she is a pure bigot.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I even shared that Spiegel interview on FB. As a way to show UK people how like UKIP she is.

Not with the same goal you are sharing it of course.

[PetiteRaleuse]

And Farage and his minions bleed the EU for every penny (expenses) and joke about it.

But that was not the point of the thread.

[claig]

Le Pen is not like UKIP. UKIP is a more free trade British liberalist party in the Conservative tradition whereas Le Pen is a more socialist interventionist protectionist party with a greater social conscience. Where the parties agree is that they both want self-determination and rule by the people rather than by the elites.

Have you seen Le Pen's recent 30 minute interview on Russia Today? Watch that and see what she said about the EU and you will see why the elite are so against her for saying it.

[PetiteRaleuse]

The ukip 2010 manifesto was almost identical to the FN's.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Yes. I have read both and compared.

[claig]

I haven't seen the Front National manifesto. But as far as I understand it, the Front National believes in protectionism and protecting French jobs and industries by subsidising them and maintaining them. I don't think that UKIP care particularly about those kind of things as they are more of a pro business free trade kind of party.

And don't forget that Farage has described the 2010 manifesto, written by someone who was once a Conservative and is now again a Conservative, as "drivel".

[claig]

I think the country to watch for what may happen to the EU is France rather than Britain.

Cameron does not want to leave the EU and I am not sure we will actually be allowed a referendum on it and even if we are, the entire elite and establishment will gang up on UKIP, so the referendum may be lost.

I like Farage, but as he himself said, the 2010 manifesto was "drivel", and I don't think Farage is able to answer questions on all aspects of policy since he has not studied all aspects.

But Le Pen can answer questions on all aspects of policy as her party is more established than UKIP and she knows all aspects of policy.

The real threat to the EU elite comes from Le Pen, not Farage. You only have to listen to her recent 30 minute Russia Today interview with Sophie Shevardnadze to see why.

There is some talk that Le Pen could possibly win the French Presidency in 2017. If that were to happen, the ramifications for the EU elite, all their plans and schemes, and for the whole EU itself would be gamechanging.

"Le Pen as President? France thinks the unthinkable

The victory of France's far-right National Front in EU elections and the disarray of its two main parties has the French asking themselves an awkward question: could its leader Marine Le Pen be their next president?

The answer for now is: "Probably not". But the mere fact that serious analysts are even entertaining the prospect of Le Pen entering the Elysee Palace after 2017 elections shows how much the political landscape has been shaken in the past week."

uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/29/uk-france-lepen-idUKKBN0E91JO20140529

When the elite watched her Russia Today interview they must have been biting their nails and tearing their hair out. They never thought it would come to this. She could spell the end of all their plans.

[Chipstick10]

Out out out and out

[lljkk]

Votes are:
14 In, 7 Out, 3 Shakeabouts. 23/65 posts on thread from Claig.

[claig]

'23/65 posts on thread from Claig'

Short of my usual quota. But at least you have added an interesting post.

[claig]

And well done for counting them. It's a wonder you didn't write in green ink too.

[ironmaiden999]

Out for sure, the EU is so undemocratic. We are much better off as a sovereign country, which it does not feel like now, trade with the EU, but not run by them.
The EU is great for poor countries, they need the money the EU brings, but we need to get out!

[ironmaiden999]

Claig quite rightly pointed out Mumsnet is not representative of the British
public at all!
4 million voted for UKIP in the EU elections, I think the British public have made their views on the EU very plain.

[ironmaiden999]

Why count Claig's posts? What a waste of time! We will leave the EU in the next couple of years, that deserves a !

[WetAugust]

Claig quite rightly pointed out Mumsnet is not representative of the British public at all

Very true, which is why I rarely post on MN any more.

I'll join you with a IronMaiden.

[ironmaiden999]

wetaugust. I was going to say cheers with a before, but thought it too early in the day!

[StealthPolarBear]

In

[IAmNotDarling]

In.

Because I believe that EU membership is the only thing that saves the UK state from letting pure capitalism rule free. I thank the EU for my working conditions.

In.

[ContinentalKat]

In.

Lived in Switzerland for a while and dealing with anything EU was so bloody complicated, really made me appreciate being a European even more.