The EU. In or out?

[PetiteRaleuse]

If there were a snap vote tomorrow. In or out?

[CommanderShepard]

In. Because DH's industry (and mine to a lesser extent) will be hamstrung if we pull out and I really don't want to have to emigrate.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I'll change nationality if they vote out. (I've been meaning to anyway so not as drastic as it sounds).

[claig]

Will you change to French? Because within 10 years, I think there is a fair chance that France may leave as well.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Yes, French. Why do you think that? I know of no-one here irl that would support leaving the EU. Admittedly I live in an area which has only benefited from EU membership (we all work in Lux) but am still in contact with plenty of Parisians who also support EU membership.

[claig]

I think the Front National will eventually gain power or the Presidency, so I think there will be big changes after that.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I really think they won't. Honestly.

[WestmorlandSausage]

IN

To leave would be irrational and short minded. To think that the UK in whatever form it might take after September can stand on its own two feet is delusional.

Funny how its the same names who pop up time and again with the same deluded beliefs about some future 'perfect' society.

[claig]

I think things are only likely to get worse. The puppets may lead Europe into a confrontation with Russia, the puppets will try and impose the transatlantic trade deal, there will be more privatisations, more banking ripoffs, the attempt to introduce GM food. The tide is now turning on global warming and eco taxes and the public across Europe are no longer fooled.
The divide between the people and the puppets and elites will only increase and I think that the French people will vote for change.

[AndHarry]

In.

I don't like the way that it is now and I'm certainly not up for an 'ever-closer union' but I fear that leaving would end up with the UK becoming irrelevant.

[PetiteRaleuse]

But claig what would the UK be without the EU? We would be screwed. Even the US would abandon us. And China. There is no way we would have the trading power we have now.

And I shudder to think what ukip or the tories would do to basic human rights without the boundaries imposed by the EU.

[HappyAgainOneDay]

LottaPianos

We belonged to economy 'clubs' before we joined the EEC. EFTA and the Commonwealth. Everything ran so smoothly before the EEC became the EU without anyone knowing what that really meant - and we did not vote for the EU set up.

OUT

[YeGodsAndLittleFishes]

In

Economics. Better for economy and jobs here.

Being able to travel freely around Europe.

Having a say in things like standards/foreign affairs matters/cross European government. We would still be held to these if we left EU, nut would no longwr have a say.

The EU will exist whether we choose to be part of it or not.

I dont think independence would work for us.

What alternative is there? 53rd American state? Too far away. We are part of Europe, geographically. It is good to be a part of a larger group of nations for some tjings.

However, some things do need to change and there does need to be better autonomy for member states for some issues, but greater unity for a few things too. It isn't perfect, but independence would he a while lot worse.

[claig]

The Tories and Cameron don't want to leave Europe.

I think the entire EU will collapse. The time of empires ruled by Councils, Presidencies and politburos is over. The Soviet Empire collapsed and now the EU empire is still growing and trying to swallow up former Soviet satellites. But the recent EU elections showed the writing on the wall. The people have had enough. The bankers and elites have failed them and delivered a catastrophic economic climate and are still all banging on the drum of catastrophic climate change too. But the unaccountable elite are like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. No one believes them anymore. There is a crisis of faith in our leaders and since they are in thrall to the bankers and global business, there is nothing they can do to change. I don't think they can fix what is broke and restore faith in their leadership.

We are still in the top 6 or 7 economies in the world. If we restore our great education system, we wil still produce great things. It won't just be us who leave the EU, it will be other countries too.

The US wants us to stay in and it wants more countries to join. One day Ukraine too. But eventually there will be politicians who listen to the people and say that we will have to leave.

[claig]

More young people in France voted for the Front National than any other party. That is hugely significant since the young are the future and also the young are usually left wing since they lack years of experience.

All of the disastrous decisions - Libya, Syria, Ukraine, the Euro, eco taxes, the banking scandals, high taxation, failing socialist policies and eventually the transatlantic trade deal which the US wants and the evident lack of national sovereignty and independence and the obvious rule by puppets - will cause the youth in France to vote for change.

[claig]

They tell us we have to stay in Europe for business and jobs. What business? Zero hour contracts, internships and wages that people can't afford to live on?

The EU is a big business club run by appointees who wish to further globalisation.

Chuka Umunna said that many UKIP voters were people who had been left behind by globalisation and that training in how to use emails and connect with the global economy may change their views. The politicians are cluless and out-of-touch.

There will come a time when people will say that business is there to serve us, to serve society rather than us working zero hour contracts to serve it. A huge change in politics will come and the business puppets will be left stranded when the tide turns. People will demand democracy and self-determination and that jobs be protected instead of being at the mercy of global markets.

The public have fallen out of love with the bankers, while the politicians still admire them. The public have fallen out of love with the elites and are asking what they are spending our money on and what they are doing to improve our societies. So far the answers they are getting are not satisfying them. The public has fallen out of love with the EU elite and the whole structure of unaccountable global governance.

It's broke, the economy is broke and the European dream of the elites is broke as the EU elections showed.

They are busy rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic like headless chickens in blind panic.

[PetiteRaleuse]

No. The economy is rebuilding claig . There is a lot to be done but right now decisions have to be made. Do we go back to how it was? (Cameron/Osborne). Or do we reform? (The rest of the EU?)

I would prefer to follow Merkel /Juncker (who are pretty similar economy wise) than the UK model.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I know you are an internet savvy UKIP voter. But a lot of the others I know are not. He wasn't far wrong with his comment.

[claig]

The EU Merkel system has delivered disaster across Europe wth millions unemployed with the result that people have turned to parties that were small or had no power at all just 10 years ago. People want change, they want to be listened to, they want accountability and transparency and representatives who work for them rather than for global banks, global business and globalist planners.

At least the UK economy is beginning to grow and unemployment is down and I think we are set to grow faster than he average of the EU countries.

But that is not enough. The Tories think that they will stop UKIP just by a good economy, but it won't work, because people now want more. They want politicians who are on our side rather than the side of business. It won't come overnight, but it will come because more and more people have had enough of the status quo.

[Petrasmumma]

Out. EU law. The EU has turned into something very far removed from what we signed up for and it's out of control.

[claig]

'He wasn't far wrong with his comment.'

He was so wrong it is laughable. He thinks that knowing how to use emails will give people work. There are even CEOs and newspaper editors who don't know how to use computers and emails. It is not that that creates employment.

They need to open factories and build houses and protect jobs and build ships, not create job centre courses on how to write emails.

Instead of fixing real problems, they tinker with the irrelevant because they are powerless to effect real change. Instead of restoring faith in our democratic system and making people's vote count, they campaign to make PMQs less beastly for the luvvies.

[claig]

There are graduates who know how to write emails but who are unemployed because there is not enough work around.

This metropolitan elite of millionaires and barristers and PPEs is so far removed from ordinary people that they end up patronizing UKIP voters and working class people by telling them that sending emails and connecting with the global economy is the answer to their problems.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Not enough work around. Whose fault is that?

[claig]

The fault of the system and the elite who make policy or follow instructions.

[claig]

It is certainly not the fault of people who aren't whizzes at sending emails.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Do you really still believe Farage is not part of that elite?