Just been on a course about new benefit system

[buggyRunner]

Christ it's a big shake up.

I say this as someone who won't be personally affected- it is harsh.

Basically if you claim any benefits other than child benefit you're probably going to have a loss.

[crazynanna]

crazynanna - i largely agree with you.

Well I am surprised you made the comments about parents' then

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

crazynanna - because the school is focussed on the child & whatever the parents reasons, the school is concerned with the effect on the child's education.

[crazynanna]

Dp deals with the parents of children who join gangs when at primary school and they are part of the problem/ the problem.

It was this comment I was referring to.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

CN - yes the school cannot fix the parents problems and if the parent cannot work with the school because of whatever reason they then can become part of the problem.

he has had parents attacking other pupils in the playground. then they get the police involved and ban the parents. but they cannot 'do' that much.

how do you think schools should help parents more/differently?

[crazynanna]

It was just when you started commenting on having no sympathy for families of gang members', and then went on to say parents' are the problem,etc.

I was just trying to show you it isn't as cut and dried as all that.

[AmberLeaf]

Most bizarre example of backpeddling ever.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

i didnt say no sympathy - said limited sympathy.

Amber - you make loads of assumptions so of course when we actually have a discussion, its not waht you thought.

[AmberLeaf]

Whhat did I assume when you said you have no sympathy for mark duggans family?

I think I was right in my assumption actually and now you're trying to act like you give a shit.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

i said "Of course he should not have been shot but I have limited sympathy for his family."

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

i also said "thought the man's family/pastor asked for calm."

[NicholasTeakozy]

Garlicbutter you're right, but the focus of the rioters is wrong.

is strangely prescient.

Including the verse:-

But you get to the place
Where the real slavedrivers live
It's walled off by the riot squad
Aiming guns right at your head
So you turn right around
And play right into their hands
And set your own neighbourhood
Burning to the ground instead

That whole album is ahead of its time. Every song can be applied to what's happening today.

[flatpackhamster]

AmberLeaf

I'm pretty sure mark duggan didn't even have a criminal record. But because of the shit the police put out there to influence idiots who see a black man and think the worst you think his family don't deserve any sympathy.

From here:
"Stirling said he had known Duggan, who was 29, all his life. "Mark Duggan as a person was a nice young man. I'm not saying he was an angel. He had his fair share of problems with the police, but he was a good father. He was the same age as my son ? he was like a son to me. He was not a danger to our community.""

But you're "pretty sure" he didn't even have a criminal record, even though one of his mates says otherwise.

Remarkable level of bigotry in this thread, all flowing from left to right.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

bollocks is it.

There is a post on here who has 'limited sympathy' for the family of a dead young man.

Not him but his family. His mother, his siblings.

If that isnt bigotry I dont know what is.

[flatpackhamster]

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere

bollocks is it.

There is a post on here who has 'limited sympathy' for the family of a dead young man.

Not him but his family. His mother, his siblings.

If that isnt bigotry I dont know what is.

Apparently you don't know what bigotry is.

A bigot is a person who is obstinately attached to their own prejudices. And here we've seen endless posts by people insisting that Mark Duggan was a noble, proud decent citizen who never dun nuffink guvnor, and that the Met deliberately went out to bust a cap in a black man because he was black.

Their obstinate refusal to consider any other point of view makes them bigoted, as does their vicious abuse of anyone who disagrees with their bigoted point of view.

[AmberLeaf]

Sorry am I missing something? Where does that quote state he had a criminal record?

'Problems with the police' what could that mean? Anything really.

His family have stated several times that he had no criminal record. I've seen no evidence to indicate otherwise and tbh if there was evidence saying he did have a record I think it would have been paraded by the IPCC by now instead of the lies they put out.

[MarigoldsInTheWindow]

whether he had a criminal record or not is not excuse to shoot someone.

[FrothyOM]

Since when did we have the death penalty in this country?

The police had no right to execute him like this, regardless of whether he had a criminal record or not.

The only bigotry I have seen on this thread is from the poster who started a discussion about rioters and looters on a thread about benefits.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

The only bigotry I have seen on this thread is from the poster who started a discussion about rioters and looters on a thread about benefits.

guardian headline www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/aug/17/riot-hit-london-boroughs-unemployment

"Riot-hit London boroughs among worst unemployment blackspots: TUC list of places in Britain where jobs are hardest to come by includes Hackney, Haringey and Lewisham"

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Endless posts about how noble MD was?

Dont be so silly.

[Orwellian]

Why does she have to have sympathy for his relatives? Surely her opinions are up to her and not everyone else and she does not have to justify her opinions? How many people complaining here would have sympathy for the relatives of George Osbourne or Margaret Thatcher when she dies? Let her have her opinion without the thought police giving her a lecture on what she should or should not be thinking and please do not throw the word "bigot" at someone just because she has a different opinion. It belittles the meaning of the word and makes people who use it inappropriately look like drama queens trying to stifle debate.

[AmberLeaf]

How many people complaining here would have sympathy for the relatives of George Osbourne or Margaret Thatcher when she dies?

me

I have sympathy for the family of anyone who dies tbh because grief hurts and I have empathy for their pain.

She is entitled to her opinion and I am entitled to disagree with it-its called debate.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Why shouldnt she?
What is it based on?

I hate Cameron. He is a cunt. But I had utmost sympathy for him when his son died.

As did just about everyone else.

And I think you will find that I was not the one to start throwing the word bigot around.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

i dont remember being overwhelmed with sympathy when discussing DPs mothers death or my paralysed fathers death either. on a thread some time ago.

posters - who are on this thread - rather than engage in debate in what i was actually talking about, imagined scenarios that bore no resemblance to anything that happened in real life.

and called me vile for...doing what they were imagining...not what actually happend. but of course they have limitless sympathy.....if you have politics they approve of.

debate is much more interesting than ranting & i actually enjoy what other posters say even if its not my personal view. people looking for boogie men is also interesting. someone has to be Evil & Heartless, not just of a different opinion.

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

on the upside, we are obviously all interested in discussing this topic, so maybe more discussion and less shouting bigot would be a constructive way forwards?

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Are you accusing me of being unsympathetic when your DP's mother died or when your father died?
If you are I think you have me confused with someone else entirely.

I am very sorry for your losses but I have no recollection of the thread you are talking about.

Are you sure all the unsympathetic people were left wing? Did that have a baring on what happened?
I am very confused.

When people express sympathy for the loss of DD I never think about what their political leanings are. Its never come up.

Are you sure it was because of their political beliefs?