Tory policies wrecking the country.

[ChickenLickn]

tory policies wrecking the country just like we knew they would

Tories are bad for business. Bad for you and bad for me. Unless you are a dave's mates millionaire perhaps.

Alice, sometimes I do wonder what you think the government is. It's not some sort of elected divine power for whom no rules apply.

When they are running a deficit they have to go to the market to borrow money. That is after all what a deficit is. We are spending more than we earn.

Lenders are under no obligation to lend to the government. So if the government cannot instil confidence that they will repay their debts then they have to go borrow at a higher interest or run out of cash.

It's like if you have a shit credit history, instead of getting a 0% finance deal on your new TV, you have to go get it from Brighthouse at 29.9%.

Being a government is absolutely no different. There are limits to even government power (thankfully).

Well, niceguy, some of us regard this as one of the inevitable effects of capitalism; the people serve the economy, the tail wags the dog. Many believe that a programme of reforms can humanise 'the system', and capitalism can be tamed with these unpleasant aspects controlled. Others think that is unrealistic, as unrealistic as participatory democracy being compatible with absolute monarchy and feudalism. I'm (reluctantly) one of them. I believe it is possible to have a political/economic system that is run by and serves the people.

And once upon a time people believed the earth was flat and that Elvis is still alive.

Being more serious, the UK government is a mere small cog in the world economic stage. We no longer are able to influence world events without the support of the real players, namely US & China.

So if you want a more participatory democracy (whatever that nice sounding term actually means) then you need the support of US & China and possibly most of Europe to sign up. The Tories on their own can't do very much. Neither can Labour.

You seem to be under the impression that governments of the current type representing existing nation states are the only possibility. Lacks ambition.

Don't do it alice. Don't get sucked in.

T(u)sk, t(u)sk. Geddit?

Whilst I'd love some sort of democratically elected government of the world whose priority is the poor & needy, i doubt either of us will see such a thing in our lifetime.

Accuse me of lacking ambition if you like but I say you are being unrealistic.

This thread is about Tories wrecking the country, not some hypothetical debate of what forms of governments are possible. I take it since you are no longer arguing against Tory policies but instead about the theory of capitalism and governments that you accept the Tories are not the bogeymen?

Posts along the lines of "we have to have these cuts to retain the confidence of the markets" are fatuous nonsense.

The 'markets' have warned this government about its policies because they are known to worsen the economic situation, and make it more difficcult to repay its debts.

So tory policies have FAILED - both the people they are supposed to serve AND the markets they keep blaming. The only likely 'winners' from these policies are the few aforementioned "daves mates millionaires".

Have they though? Given we've not gone the way of Greece yet we had a similar deficit. Given we've not lost our AAA rating like Italy & Portugal and even the mighty US.

Yes growth is anemic but given the shit we're in, I think so far the cuts have actually been a success.

I know, glasnost, I know. They're out in force on the Occupy thread still. Someone has to do it. Shame they can't type on here in green ink, the traditional Font of the Mad. But still, at least we tried to stop them before they kill again.

Those crazy tories... What the hell are they doing in our government?!

Yes, Tory policies of ideological cuts are positively harming the country.

Thanks for austerity, the UK's growth rate is amongst the lowest in europe:

fullfact.org/factchecks/pmqs_ed_miliband_david_cameron_economy_growth-2973

It is also the second lowest after Japan:

money.uk.msn.com/news/world-economy/world-economic-growth.aspx

'Significant chance' of double-dip recession, says Bank of England expert

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/27/double-dip-recession-in-uk-possible-says-mpc-member

---

UK Credit rating is 'almost certainly' going to be downgraded:

UK rating downgrade 'unavoidable'

A downgrade of Britain's top notch credit rating may be unavoidable because the country can not grow out of its debts, a leading asset manager has claimed.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8822965/UK-rating-downgrade-unavoidable.html

Legal & General IM: UK downgrade almost inevitable

www.citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/legal-and-general-im-uk-downgrade-almost-inevitable/a532060?ref=wealth-manager-latest-news-list

Britain's prized AAA rating to be 'at severe risk' by 2013, says fund giant

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2048447/Britains-prized-AAA-rating-severe-risk-2013-says-fund-giant-L-G.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Since GDP figures include government borrowing, it's pretty damn obvious that the pretend 'growth' will be lower or stagnant if you borrow less.

Borrowing more does not fix this. It just artificially inflated the GDP figures so we can all pretend everything is rosy, whilst building up an even bigger problem to face the next time round.

tried and failed to go to St Paul's yesterday; failed due to illness.
Hey ho.

Hi Alice!

I'm ill as well. Hope you feel better soon!

Progressive social policies (surestart, tax credits etc) cost us much more than is actually spent on them because international investors like to pull their money out of the UK in order to penalise governments for providing 'welfare' to the poor, usually doubling what is actually being spent (and i'm paraphrasing Chomsky here, the man does his research) and therefore the deficit. Funnily enough they don't mind about the huge profits of arms manufacturers or endless bank bailouts. Welfare to the rich is fine and dandy. Chances are Blair had to agree to Iraq as a tradeoff for the few progressive elements of his time as prime minister. Not excusing him.

Intergalactic you sound embittered and twisted with righteous rage. Welcome to our world. You'll like it here.
Hi ttosca Ooh, don't get me started. Emergency doc at 2am. Better now. Antibiotics are a universal good.

The unions brought about Margaret Thatcher through their behaviour. I have no sympathy for them at all.

The Impact on Women of the Budget 2011

UK Women?s Budget Group - April 2011

www.wbg.org.uk/index_7_282363355.pdf

I am liking this one here

DH's business won't make the hours by then, nor mine: I can't work more hours as I am a carer but carers won;t have and protection. So that's it- this is officially the last year we are not in social housing. Dh can't be away from home enough hours to make it up as I need him around with our Sn boys, he works 24 hours ATM, and without putting a child in care nothing I an do any more.

and another thing...

consider the last article in the light of this one

I am a tax payer they are getting the scroungers off their arses
Its good for me

Getting the people who get degrees and will reap the reward of the higher salary to pay for it
Thats good for me

Sorting out the woefully inadequate adoption system
As a person who works with looked after children it's good for them and me

Bringing the public sector into the real world in regards to pensions which is not a system we can afford

Finally making sure schools re establish rigour, competition and discipline that's good for me as a parents

The only thing so far I am not happy with is not allowing a free vote on europe and this shit about bankers still get bonus

And for all the lentil eating lefties please stop going on about how rich the Tories are or we shall have to go into how gordon brown went to one of the most exclusive private schools in Scotland or how one of the richest men in the uk is a labour lord sir Alan sugar

As if the labour front bench some how grew up in the getto don't have very very rich friends and learnt their craft in the school of hard knocks rather than the very nice schools they all went to.

The Labour Party has published a list of 12 wealthy backers who lent the party almost £14 million in the run up to last year's general election.

They are:

:: Dr Chai Patel, founder of Priory Clinics, who was nominated for a peerage which was blocked by the House of Lords Appointments Commission, lent £1.5 million;

:: Barry Townsley, the millionaire chairman of financial services company Downay Day Townsley, lent £1 million;

:: Sir David Garrard, a property developer, who lent £2.3 million. Both Sir David's and Mr Townsley's nominations for seats in the House of Lords were also blocked by the commission;

:: Andrew Rosenfeld, who was a partner of Sir David in London property group Minerva, lent Labour £1 million;

:: Rod Aldridge, who lent £1 million, is the chief executive of IT technology giant Capita;

:: Richard Caring, the clothing tycoon and owner of the fashionable Ivy restaurant, who is worth a reported £300 million, lent the party £2 million;

:: Gordon Crawford, founder of London Bridge Software, who is reported to have made a personal fortune of more than £1 billion from banking and credit management software, lent the party £500,000;

:: Professor Sir Christopher Evans, the founder and chairman of Merlin Biosciences Ltd, lent £1 million;

:: Nigel Morris, the co-founder and former president of Capital One Financial Corporation and a governor of the London Business School, lent the party £1 million;

:: Sir Gulam Noon, the curry tycoon who helped make chicken tikka masala Britain's favourite dish, lent £250,000;

:: Derek Tullett, a veteran City figure and founder of the money-broking firm which bore his name and was bought by Collins Stewart Tullett in 2003, lent £400,000;

:: Lord Sainsbury, the science minister and member of the Sainsburys supermarket dynasty who is thought to have donated more than £6 million to Labour since 2002, lent £2 million.

Seems its not just dave that has rich friends

So leaving me homeless becuase DH's self employed bsuiness won;t make the minimum in time is good for you?

i don;t ahve the words but if i did, they would be rude ones and include self staisfied and empathy free.