Tory policies wrecking the country.

[ChickenLickn]

tory policies wrecking the country just like we knew they would

Tories are bad for business. Bad for you and bad for me. Unless you are a dave's mates millionaire perhaps.

Oh give me a break. Most of the world is going to the shitter and that all can't be blamed on the Tories, who only got in less than 18 months ago. Americans voted in Obama who keeps implementing liberal and/or socialist policies through either executive order or by either leaning on / having powerful cronies do the 'persuading' of Democrats in Congress and they're even worse off than we are!

Instead of a blame game (which is completely pointless as everything can be blamed on someone else), surely how can we fix the current situation is more important? Unless, you know, I've missed the entire point of this thread (which I think I have, hmm) and is not about discussing stagflation etc. and more about 'it's your fault!'/'no, your fault!', in which case, carry on...

The point you are missing Marjo is that the left always have to blame someone. This means they don't have to accept the fact that their policies simply do not work. Watch. Glasnost will hurl some insults my way now to avoid debating the fact that history has proven time & time again that socialist policies do not work.

Ergo the Tories. All we have heard since they came to power was excuse after excuse... blaming Labour yet in reality when Labour were in power we had growth we had low unemployment we had services to be proud of now what do we have? Inflation at an all time high unemployment rising. Its one excuse after an another. The overall morale of the country is at all time low. (unless you are Claig). I bet they will still try and blame Labour at the next election. Have seen it all before. Labour admits they could have done certain things better. How ever the old blue line is always to stick your chin up and blame others.

talking in the past tense is perhaps wishful thinking...

Sheesh Aqua. Are you REALLY so naive??

Let's cast our minds back to when his Tonyness stepped into Number 10. Our economy had just recovered from a recession, the boom was just starting. This is just what happens in a free market economy. There's a boom, there's bust, there's a boom.....and so on.

So New Labour stepped into power at the start of a boom, more importantly they also inherited a balanced budget. As clean slates go, the Tories couldn't have handed over a better one. And whilst Gordon Brown stuck to the Tory spending pledges they'd made, everything was sweet. Economy was rock & rolling, government was in surplus. Everyone was happy.

Then they decided it was time to rip open the nations chequebook. Now any idiot can try and fix problems by chucking money at it. And that's exactly what they did. NHS, here's a few billion more. Schools, here you have some too. Poor people, don't worry we'll give you some....no questions asked. What you say? You earn £40k a year? Fuck it, here's a bit. Just remember to vote for us next election yes?

And where did this money come from? Not by taxing the rich? Oh no. They couldn't do that without upsetting the rich and upsetting the applecart. So they borrowed it. It's not a problem. Economic growth will sort it all out. I mean, Gordon was so cunning, he'd abolished boom & bust hadn't he? No other government on this planet had been able to in the history of man but Gordon was not just any man! His shit just did not stink. In fact, he was SO confident, he sold off most of our gold reserves at the bottom of the market. Pfft, who needs gold nowadays eh?

Then wtf, a recession hit?? How!?!? I mean Gordon had abolished it! Oh well, governments do what they always do in a recession, they borrow more money and raid their reserves from the surpluses they had during the good times.......Oh hang on......they didn't keep any. And what's that? They borrowed so much that everyone's getting nervous about lending the UK more.

So understandably Labour are out and the only alternatives are in. The Tories and lib dems. They have no choice now, they must cut because if they don't, no-one will lend them jack shit. Labour admit they'd have done exactly the same thing just over a slightly longer time.

But then gullible naive people like yourself come along and blame the Tories for a mess they're trying to clear up. Brilliant.

Guy - gullible yourself and more than a bit thick. Things are getting worse not better.

Cameron was in awe of Blair he could never ever have defeated him and he admitted that several times. SO if Blair was such a bad guy we now have his heir apparant - albeit a somewhat poorer alternative who lets be honest has not a clue what he is doing.

The thing that kills the Tories they could never have achieved what Labour achieved in such a short space of time.

The Tories always leave this country is such a mess it takes years to recover from.

Divide and rule, divide and rule...

Sad to watch.

Actually I do rate Blair as PM. He was a natural leader and he understood the concept of aspiration. It's the rest of his party and Gordon Brown who I think failed the country. So you are probably right in that Cameron wouldn't have beaten Blair. But it's a moot point since Blair had long gone by the time the election came about.

And just what did Labour achieve? As far as I can tell, they have left us with record budget deficit, an NHS which still says it needs more money (some things never change), a defence system which is out of control and a quagmire of a PFI system.

Like I said earlier, any idiot can improve your life in the short term by borrowing money. You can do it tomorrow. Go to your bank, get a loan for £20k and you can buy all the luxuries you need. But one day you need to pay it back and the only way you can do that is cutback on your income. Government finances are essentially no different.

Hey, glasnost. Will you be standing for that alternative? I did last time and beat the LibDems

I can't stand alice. Have too many skeletons in the cupboard!!

TUSC?

Google to see what Labour achieved.

"But one day you need to pay it back and the only way you can do that is cutback on your income."

No you focus on growing your revenue stream or improving your income..

Focus on the growth of the economy. Otherwise we will stagnate and before you know it, be the puppet of America or Brussels.

I can not see that the Right have any real mandate for growth.

Congratulations, alice, on standing!

Well done, glasnost on having such an unassailable excuse reason for not standing. Yes, it was TUSC. (Will posters please refrain from demanding full confessional promotion of TUSC, the most you'll get is desultory 'meh, it was the best/least worst available')
Thanks bread; we're always looking for more victims candidates, so feel free to be swept away by my enthusiasm and volunteer for next time.

That was meant to be victims

niceguy

Why do you keep posting rubbish when it has repeatedly shown to be false?

And just what did Labour achieve? As far as I can tell, they have left us with record budget deficit, an NHS which still says it needs more money (some things never change), a defence system which is out of control and a quagmire of a PFI system.

They didn't leave us with a record budget deficit. That was the fault of the financial crisis and subsequent recession.

The UK deficit and debt levels before the crisis and subsequent recession were pretty average or below-average for european standards:

Well lets look at the facts. If we strip away the politicking from the right or left, what was the budget deficit that Labour?s spending decisions were responsible for.

If we are to look at the real structural deficit, simply as a result of the Labour governments spending decisions, we need to go back to before the financial crises hit, in 2007. This is before the run on Northern Rock and before the bank bail outs and the recession which has led to the tax take decreasing substantially.

At the time the banking crises began to hit the world in 2007 the level of deficit in the tax year 2007/08, in other words the difference between the tax take and the amount spent by government, was 2.7% of GDP and £38.7 billion. In 2006/07 it was 2.6% of GDP. (ONS, 2008)

General government debt, the amount in total we as a country actually owe in total was £614.4 billion in 2007/08. (ONS, 2008)

This figure is not considered reprehensible or beyond any tolerance levels for a developed economy either in historic terms or in purely economic terms.

extranea.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/the-truth-about-the-uk-deficit/

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This has been pointed out to you again, and again, and again. So you are basically propagating lies in order to suit your own agenda.

MN users should be wary of taking seriously someone who knowingly and deliberate sets out to deceive them.

In 2007 the structural deficit was 3.1%, the second largest in the G7 and the fourth highest of the 26 countries for which the OECD collects data; half of the OECD countries entered the financial crisis with surpluses.

I think this report from the IFS is very balanced.

Incidentally, 3% is the maximum budget deficit allowed within the EU.

But this wasn't a record budget deficit (until the financial crisis hit) - the record was in the mid 90s, although it was brought under control and Labour actually inherited a balanced budget and ran a surplus for a few years.

The country is in a mess because of Labour and Gordon Browns fiscal irresponsibility. The Government has a budget deficit of around £150 billion which is almost unbelievable and has to be addressed. Failing to do so would see an enormous increase in bond yields as we couldn't convince investors that we were capable of dealing with our debts and the loss of the AAA credit rating which would push up interest rates throughout the whole economy.
I don't agree with everything that has been done and think that quantative easing is both an incorrect and immoral policy but to blame everything on David Cameron (or Nick Clegg) is absurd.

Bned-

^The country is in a mess because of Labour and Gordon Browns fiscal irresponsibility. The Government has a budget deficit of around £150 billion which is almost unbelievable and has to be addressed. Failing to do so would see an enormous increase in bond yields as we couldn't convince investors that we were capable of dealing with our debts and the loss of the AAA credit rating which would push up interest rates throughout the whole economy.
I don't agree with everything that has been done and think that quantative easing is both an incorrect and immoral policy but to blame everything on David Cameron (or Nick Clegg) is absurd.^

No, the country is in a mess, like most Western governments, for a series of complicated reasons having to do with the financial crisis and subsequent recession. That coupled with the fact that median wages have been stagnating for three decades, so people took on debt in order to cope with rising living costs.

Nobody is blaming Cameron and Clegg for the deficit. The deficit crisis (in all countries) is the result of the financial crisis being turned in to a national debt crisis. This happened because the financial crisis caused a recession in many Western countries (lowering tax receipts and increasing welfare payments) and because tax payers bailed out the banks with trillions of dollars.

What Cameron and Clegg can be blamed for is the mishandling of the economy since they came to power. They have put in place ideological cuts something that the Tories have always wanted to do anyway and made the deficit problem worse by putting a dampener on growth.

Since the crisis, various EU countries have recovered to a slight extent in terms of growth, but the UK has performed one of the worst, with almost no growth year on year since 2008.

But apart from the stagnation, the unemployment, the cuts and the homelessness, it's going really well. Hope to visit St Paul's on Thursday. That is all.

"This has been pointed out to you again, and again, and again. So you are basically propagating lies in order to suit your own agenda.

MN users should be wary of taking seriously someone who knowingly and deliberate sets out to deceive them."

ttosca good to see you've seen the light on our resident "nice" guy.

Where did I lie? The blog linked is just another variation of "Look we didn't borrow that much...therefore no problems." The point is that we have borrowed too much over the last 30 years and we can't go on borrowing.

It's not about the percentage of GDP. It's about market confidence. We cannot keep borrowing indefinitely. Blue chips can't, not even governments can.

No point having elections at all then. Just ask the market. Much simpler than all that messy democracy crap. This does lead inexorably to the question of who governs, in whose interests, etc. Very uncomfortable for many people.