Cameron's bloody awful too, isn't he?

[porcupine11]

Just saying.

Ponder

Ah I see - so we are changing the definition of civil liberties now in order to make a desperate stab at saying we have lost them? ooookay. I'm just trying really hard to think of a politician lately who broke a few promises.....? nnnnnng!

But please, we haven't covered the post earlier - where and when did you strip for a customs officer? Because I know I never have!

Here is the great Nick Clegg, so often derided by Labour, standing up for the liberties of the British people in the New Statesman

www.newstatesman.com/2011/01/government-british-information

HP's article was May 2010, Claig. I wonder what he thinks now.

Hugh or Henry says "The coalition agreement makes an explicit commitment to liberty and privacy"

privacy, eh? good one

I don't think Nick Clegg was dealing with any laws about stripping for customs officers. Is this some Labour plan that Clegg and Porter were not yet aware of?

"Clearly, this all has to be watched very closely indeed ? a lot has yet to be decided and there will be pressures from the civil servants, police, GCHQ and MI5 on such things as internet surveillance and phone intercepts"

oops, he forgot News International

That Clegg article is abysmal. Bastard bastard Labour, trying to make people clean up dog shit, and hope that if someone went missing they might use DNA to find out whether a corpse was them! Bastard fucking Labour with their identity cards (do you know anyone who has an identity card?)

It IS NOT TRUE and never was true that schools can fingerprint without permission!

Stupid cunt.

In Feb 2011, he was still thinking along the same lines

www.henry-porter.com/Articles/Why-we-should-believe-Nick-Clegg-when-he-promises-to-restore-liberties-stolen-by-Labour.html

I don't think he will ever change his mind and be in favour of New Labour's plans to remove our civil liberties. He may be progressive, but not to that extent.

Malcontent, I haven't been abroad lately, but I really don't fancy going through one of those scanners. Plus they were introduced after some terror plot was discovered, in spite of the fact that they wouldn't even have picked up that particular device - although they would presumably be able to see if you had a pistol in your knickers.

I would love it if Hugh-or-Henry were to go through that piece item by item with his thoughts on it today

I mean, what the FUCK?

^Yet recent times have seen those traditions badly damaged. Under Labour our civil liberties have been undermined, eroded, lost.
Widespread and indiscriminate surveillance; Their DNA being held, unnecessarily; The proliferation of new criminal offences, and the growing number of reasons state inspectors can barge into their homes; The needless restrictions on people who want to work as volunteers.

The list goes on.^

It doesn't. It doesn't even start.

Why not, Mellow?

I think the Deputy Prime Minister knows of what he speaks.

Why don't I want to pose naked for complete strangers? Er ... let me think.

On the matter of civil liberties, as I've said, I think the Coalition have just as little regard for our rights as New Labour, because they employ phone hackers as their advisors and use the press as their own party propaganda machine. (Not that Labour has no connections with the Murdoch press, though).

Mellow, they are not as bad as Labour. Henry Porter makes that clear. Of course, they have to sort out other messes, which were going on under Labour before they got in i.e. phone hacking etc.

'Why don't I want to pose naked for complete strangers?'

Are you not New Labour?

wanting to create a meritocratic society can means so many things and is open to interpretations, do you really believe there is never any other underlying reason and that it is all in order to achieve the greater good?
I suppose both the left and the right can have very similar stated aims but try to get to it through different routes, both I think destined to have flaws

mostly people get by somewhere in between,

I don't think they expect you to pose, Mellow

Ponders, give them time

No, why don't you fancy going through a scanner? It doesn't hurt, y'know! I find it a bit odd that you're appealing to me to remember the halcyon days of waltzing off abroad without being scanned and to think about how awful it is now when you haven't done it and so you don't know! They're just trying to make sure that they've done what they can so you don't get hijacked and killed, that's all. Why do you think they do it?

sfxmum, I think teh greater good is freedom, liberty, the chance to succeed and teh right to be looked after when in need. I believe that, despite their flaws, teh Coalition is better able to provide more of those things than the Labour party. None of them are perfect, it's a matter of compromise, but I am on the side of freedom.

Back to Clegg's article: there isn't 'widespread and indiscriminate surveillance. There may be some CCTV cameras where there didn't used to be - so? If you get mugged, they might have a slightly better chance of finding out who did it. I don't know anyone whose home has been 'barged into'. I don't know any volunteers who have been stopped from helping.

Made up scare mongering.

Malcontent, please start reading the Daily Mail. It's all in there. They always tell us what is going on.

The Daily Mail always told us what New Labour was up to, however rotten.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238800/The-20-000-snooper-army-Vast-number-town-hall-bureaucrats-power-enter-home-warrant.html

hollow laugh. I would start reading the Daily Mail, but I fear I might miss the important and nuanced political reportage in amongst the stories about Victoria Beckham's post-partum figure.