Should racist speech be controlled by the law?

[MrManager]

Specifically the criminal law, i.e. should it be an offence (as it is now), or is freedom of speech too important?

Freedom of speech must trump all IMO. Racism is vile but expressing ideas out loud should be a fundamental human right.

I love all these laws, they give lawyers a job and lots of money. Are you a lawyer MrManager?

Do you think laws against speeding control speeding?

hmm not sure - inciting racial hatred can be pretty vile and bloody scary (especially when it then crosses over into "reality" - whereby people use those words that were spoken and commit violent acts based on the racist crap they heard).

As I heard said the other day

Every right has a corresponding limit on it

I have a right to play loud music

But my neighbours have a right to enjoy peace in their own home and not be disturbed by my noise.

Not sure what that contributes

FWIW I think it should remain illegal to incite hatred based on racial or religious grounds

Do I want it to be legal for someone to stand and shout racist abuse at my DS's? No I don't.

I do highly value the freedom of speech but I do think there has to be limits.

There is a fine line between racist behaviour and freedom of speech but I think the law makes the division clear.

I think I agree with you fc. Human rights are not fundamental where they encroach on other people's rights. We don't have complete freedom of action so why is speech any different if the outcome of it can be harmful? Clearly speech is powerful, which is why we want as much freedom of it as possible.

I'm genuinely interested in what the argument for absolute free speech is, compared to freedom of action?

"No one should be free to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre"

"Human rights are not fundamental where they encroach on other people's rights."

eh? so how does that work then? are some people's rights more equal than others?

catinthehat2 I think she means that X's right to free speech should not be allowed to affect Y's right to be free from harm.

"are some people's rights more equal than others?"

Of course not, but I don't think that's what Besom was saying, more that that some rights are more important than others.

The right to self expression is important, but the right to live without being persecuted mentally or physically is more important.

oops x-post with MrManager

Inciting violence is different to inciting hatred.

We don't want violence and we don't want people treated unfairly. We can ensure violence is not tolerated and equalities are upheld while allowing even the stupidest, ugliest, most hideous opinions to be transmitted.

To be honest, I have very rarely heard of anyone in Britain complaining that their freedom of speech has been curtailed who hadn't wanted to say something racist, sexist, disablist or hompphobic.

WOAM so it's ok for someone to walk down the street and be verbally abused purely based on the colour of their skin then??

You must have free speech in a democratic society. MUST.

I agree that racism is vile. However, when you say it's ok for racist speech to be illegal, you're accepting that the goverment can lock you up because of something you say. When they can do that, a wall has come down and the consequences will be dire. Have you ever read 1984?

Inciting violence and inciting racial hatred are both criminal offences, WOAM.

in my experience once racial hatred is allowed to be voiced freely then it's only a matter of time before the violence follows.

What Any said.

This is about how much control you want to give the state.

There are social forces in place which make it largely unacceptable to make racist remarks. The state cannot completely protect people from any offensive remarks with severely curtailing everyone's freedom.

But how can it be right that someone is too intimidated to leave their house because they have the "wrong" colour skin. Even if they know they are "protected" (haha) from any actual physically abuse?

How much control I want to give the state?

Well - I'd like to know that it's not ok for my DS's to walk down the street and be racially abused.

There is a huge difference between "offensive" - and down right bloody intimidating. I experienced it first hand nearly 11yrs ago. The state endorsed people saying whatever they wanted about another race (by doing it themselves as it happens in this case) and this quickly escalated from the odd shout of "murungu" (white - derogatory term) to what was definitely much more sinister, and soon turned into murder who took those words one step further.

Yes thank you MrM and Tolalola for clarifying that.