How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

/////But it still isn't easy for older people, especially those on marginal incomes: as costs rise, often their net incomes remain fixed, especially if relying on savings or annuities./////

At last insight, knowledge, and compassion.

The problem with middle England is, that they dont realise that there are actually people far worse off than them, who are old.

But Ivanhoe, go campaign with Age Concern then if you feel strongly about this. On this site, I read many threads from families worrying about how they will feed their CHILDREN.

It is not fair to complain on HERE that everyone is complacent about the elderly. Most people here have their own issues to deal with, including the care of their own parents and grandparents ON TOP of dealing with their own young families.

The evidence shows that the vast majority of elderly people have a life that would be the envy of THEIR parents and the envy of their children. This generation will probably be the best off of any, EVER. Yes, let's help people who need it, but don't expect generalised sympathy when people are struggling to provide a home for their kids.

/////The evidence shows that the vast majority of elderly people have a life that would be the envy of THEIR parents and the envy of their children.///////

Oh brother do you need to get out more.

The evidence according to the Office of National Statistics, as opposed to the evidence that YOU have helpfully ......Oh yes, you haven't actually supplied anything at all.....

Ivanhoe, you still haven't explained what your argument is. I do need to get out more - I was planning to tonight in fact, but snow has put a bit of bummer on it. If you are just trolling....

////The evidence according to the Office of National Statistics////

With a state pension equalling just 16 per cent of national average earnings, it amazes me you need further statistics ?

Yes.

I need to know what pensioners total incomes are compared to the national average, the distribution of those incomes and their sources.

For a start.

Riven, I dont know your age, but you obviously have no idea of how the State pension came into being, or the Labour Government's 1974 initiative to protect its value on behalf of this countries elderly retired ?

Am I right or wrong there ?

///////So no, I'm fresh out of compassion when I see young disabled poeple freezing because they dont get winter fuel alowance/////

I could not agree more, disabled people are treated like garbe as well by the government.

So, why dont you start up a group defending the disabled ?????????????????????????

//////Yes.

I need to know what pensioners total incomes are compared to the national average, the distribution of those incomes and their sources.

For a start.//////

Do you now, well then, get looking. Im already doing my bit.

perhaps because we are too busy actually looking after disabled people or are disabled our selves.
I take it you are an pensioner.

Ivanhoe - How are you doing your bit? You've posted a load of assertions and opinions with no evidence to back up any of it.

There are disability advocacy groups - but there are more old people than there are disabled people, and the disabled people have less money.

So the pensioner lobby is stronger.

Also a significant proportion of disabled people don't get to vote due the the nature of their disability, whereas pensioners vote in greater numbers than the general population.

Beenbeeta. How can you say that the OPs argument is not valid. I have worked with some of the poorest pensioner in the country, they literally can do nothing about the state of affairs they find themselves in. Many living in poor housing, have illness/and no family support.

Some fought for this country, I think the your attitude towards the elderly, somes up this country, many think the elderly 'dispensible' One day you will be old and see how you like the attitude of others towards you.

IMO those without a voice are certainly the elderly, along with others in society.

Ivanhoe - "In 1908 Lloyd George introduced the Old Age Pensions Act that provided between 1s. and 5s. a week to people over seventy. These pensions were only paid to citizens on incomes that were not over 12s. "

So the origin of the pension included means testing. And started at the kind of age it's moving back to.

//////Beenbeeta. How can you say that the OPs argument is not valid. I have worked with some of the poorest pensioner in the country, they literally can do nothing about the state of affairs they find themselves in. Many living in poor housing, have illness/and no family support.

Some fought for this country, I think the your attitude towards the elderly, somes up this country, many think the elderly 'dispensible' One day you will be old and see how you like the attitude of others towards you.

IMO those without a voice are certainly the elderly, along with others in society.//////

BRILLIANT.

But will they care ?, no of course not. Its all about me me me.

complimentary - The OP isn't saying anything about the poorest pensioners - and noone is saying they shouldn't be helped. The OP is saying all pensioners regardless of wealth should have their pensions tripled. And that pensioners are worthy of more income from the state than any other groups just because they are old.

/////complimentary - The OP isn't saying anything about the poorest pensioners - and noone is saying they shouldn't be helped. The OP is saying all pensioners regardless of wealth should have their pensions tripled. And that pensioners are worthy of more income from the state than any other groups just because they are old./////

No, not just because they are old, how shallow of you, but rich or poor, the oldest fought for this country or paid some part during the war years.

Therfore all pensioners deserve a decent income from the State, because they have worked for it, and therefore should receive it "as of right.

/////Bet you didn't Ivanhoe./////

Bet I do.

Hang on - because SOME fought in a war, ALL pensioners should receive more money?

Some OLD people commit crimes, so maybe we should lock ALL of them up.

my IL's are on the pension top-up because their savings and income are so low. they have never had it so good - they are much better of than when they were working.

every so often they give some money away to their children, or they have too much which i guess takes them over the savings limit.

they run a car, go on a couple of holidays a year, redecorate, buy new furniture. and he got to retire at 60.

i am jealous of my ex work colleagues who retired at 50 on a good pension, which has since reduced and we won't get till we are 63 (currently).

why should i be sorry for them? they are getting a much better deal than we will

Ivanhoe - You can't bet on whether you know something after it's been said.