How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

and my MIl didn't even pay into the system - she was on disability benefit

You'd have to be kicking the arse of 90 to have fought in WWII.

/////Ivanhoe - "In 1908 Lloyd George introduced the Old Age Pensions Act that provided between 1s. and 5s. a week to people over seventy. These pensions were only paid to citizens on incomes that were not over 12s. "

So the origin of the pension included means testing. And started at the kind of age it's moving back to.///////

After the second World War, todays oldest pensioners were promised "cradle to grave care" based on taxation and NI contributions through their working lives.

The then working population spent their time helping to build this country up, and funding their taxation and NI contributions into State coffers.

The State pension was linked to earnings, but over the years high inflation reduced the State pensions value.

So in 1974, the Harold Wilson Labour Government introced the Social Security Act that meant that State pensions would be linked to earnings or inflation which ever the high to protect the value of the State pension.

It was in 1980 that Thatcher broke the State pension link with national average wages, and the rest is history.

i have raised a family and worked at the same time, so ivanhoe does that mean i should get a double pension according to your logic?

Ivanhoe - Yes. They were lied to.

Ivanhoe - This generation was promised and end to boom and bust, but look where we are now.

It has no relevance at all what governements 100, 40 or 30 years ago promised. If they had wanted to ensure the value of pensions they could have set up funds to pay for them. As they didn't we can only assume they were leaving it to future generations to decide what to do.

"It was in 1980 that Thatcher broke the State pension link with national average wages, and the rest is history."

I was never actually old enough to vote for Thatcher, unlike a lot of pensioners.

A lot of pensioners shot themselves in the foot by voting for that old bag, and thats a fact.

/////i have raised a family and worked at the same time, so ivanhoe does that mean i should get a double pension according to your logic?/////

How old are you ?

/////Shock headline 'Politicians lie'!!!!/////

No shock, no headline, that the British are largely politically thick.

ivanhoe what has my age got to do with it? i think there's something wrong with your keyboard

I'll tell you something, the biggest load of Turkish delight is normally written on this site, on all sorts of issues. The elderly deserve our respect and yes I do believe they 'deserve' an increase in their pensions!

////where's the money coming from?//////

Forget it, lem em die ey ?

agree with complimentary. It is sad to see so many left wingers having so little sympathy for the elderly. It is divide and conquer. Of course other people are also suffering, but so are the elderly. We should all stick together, united.

'where's the money coming from?'

There is loads of money. Where did the money come from to bail out Ireland, to bail out the banks, to wage wars, to increase the foreign aid budget, to pay the EU?

what riven said

Our pensioners get lower pensioners than most of Western Europe. We have a worse health service than Western Europe. Why do we put up with this? Why are we divided? Why don't we unite against the lying fatcats?

And the disabled, OP? Lots of groups losing out you know.

you want to try silversurfer website; catered for that grouping, as this is to parents. HTH

'"Britain's elderly people have already spent a working life funding into the system". The problem was that they didn't pay anything like enough to pay for their pension benefits. Hence the huge pensions blackhole. Not their fault of course. Nobody predicted lifespans would rise so rapidly.

'

not alweays true (sorry have ahrped on this here before)

dad worked all his life- started at 5 in act- and both his pension schemes went under, not becuase of poor planning but becuase the companies he worked for were sold to American owned firms, where pensions are treated as assets and theyw ere stripped- the bigger one for paying asbestos claims.

He's still working at 70-ish despite ill health but when he claims IMO he will deserve every penny: he has always paid and never had a penny back, it's genuine need.

Oh and I beleive as other shave said that benefits should be targeted on the basis of income / needalone.

Pensioner, disabled, poor working family, whatever. If they need help yes, if they don't then no.

The benefits system is a safety net for people if they need it, which is a wonderful thing, and pensioners who have no pension or a very low one becuase they were homemakers, or disabled, or whatever deserve help. Poeple raking in a small fortune don't- but if that income fails then it's there for them..