How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

Its staring you in the face.

I'm not sure what's staring me in the face - how is anything worth anything in longevity terms?

If it's the transport thing - buses don't have anything to do with trains.

I love these threads by Ivanhoe. So predictable - and it's not just the punctuation that's wacky!

However, to treat the basic premise with some respect - that the state pension should be increased, please Ivanhoe could you provide me with an indication of what that would cost on an annual basis and how that would be funded. And please don't just say tax the rich more - I need to know more detail of what tax rate and what level of income. Alternatively, what spending cuts you would make.

You see, the government doesn't have any money other than what it takes from taxpayers and thus increasing one spending commitment must be accompanied with decreasing others - either privately (as a result of tax increases) or publicly if funded by spending cuts elsewhere.

In the absence of support for your argument I'm afraid it carries as much weight as a letter to Father Christmas. Sorry.

Ivanhoe- what percentage of pension claimants actually stayed at home raising their children, and are now being paid pensions they they have never contributed to?

I have paid tax and NI since I was 16yo- where are all my contributions going? There won't be a state pension when I 'retire'- people my generation won't have the luxury of retiring, we will have to work till we drop- we will be the first generation to have shorter life expectancies than our parents.

Its no good bleating that living in a huge asset won't pay the bills.... there are people in their 20s, 30s and 40s now who will never own a home, let alone one worth even half what most pensioners today take for granted.

"Now for gown up talk."
of course pensioners deserve help
but so do disabled people.
but most people are imo playing into the governments hands, whilst everyone is pensioner and benefit bashing they forget the most vunerable people in our society.
we have a prime minister and goverment who haven't go a clue what it it is like, so they just think all disabled people are the same and can work, so treat them with contempt.

Yes, Ivanhoe the politicians do use divide and rule. They are most happy when ordinary people are looking to their neighbours and asking why they get a few quid more than them.
The unemployed, low paid, poor pensioners,students,those on housing benefit,Incapacity claimants,those paying for childcare are all struggling.And everyone should have Child Benefit- bringing up children is an expense whatever your income and should be recognised in the tax/benefit system. Take it away from high rate taxpayers- next it will be those on £25000, then less and less until no one gets it.
53% of the country's incomes are wages. The other 47% are profits,interest and rent. Yet when do we hear these latter incomes being targeted? Corporation tax is to be reduced from 28% to 24% - so much for 'all being in it together.' Do millionaires not still get their Capital Gains Tax Benefit (ie their capital gains tax allowances?).
Ordinary people should unite against the cuts.This government is using the deficit as an excuse to do what it wanted to do anyway ie dismantle the welfare state.

Perhaps it would be more reasonable to ask the question - why does a single person get JSA of £55 a week and yet a pensioner gets £97?

perhaps because JSA is supposed to be short term where as a pension isn't

SharronM1 - Beer and cigarettes are expenses to. Those aren't recognised in the tax/benefit system.

Having children is a different kind of expense. 1) As a society we value children so we want people to have them, and 2) Where people are not able to support their children themselves we don't want the children to suffer from the misfortunes of the parents.

but they are both supposed to be sustainable

I'm the opposite view to the OP, I think people should sell big houses to support themselves instead of trying to pass on inheritance. The elderly are now the baby boomers - long sustainable growth, foreign holidays, high standard of living, enjoyed MASSIVE increase in house prices.

strange how most elderly people I know are living very frugally and are on a very limited budget.

Ille tell you what. Coronation Street is real.

Question Time is true British Democracy at work.

All MP's are really in it to help people.

There is life on mars.

The Sun is the most intelligent newspaper in this country.

And Santa Claus is real.

We and younger than us will never have what they have had. Our children as a society are screwed.

There are of course poor in every sector in society so there are a few poor pensioners - but there are much poorer people amongst low/no income families and people with disabilities.

Ivanhoe
no.
no - that's elections you're thinking of.
no. Some are though. Maybe even most. Probably not all though.
to be determined.
define your terms.
no.

'The Coalition needs you',
The expense of beer and cigarettes can hardly be compared to the costs of bringing up children!
We choose to have children for our own reasons- but at the same time we are creating the workforce of the future.This is surely an important social job - and not less important than other forms of work. Business is getting its future workforce almost entirely at the expense of parents.

/////The expense of beer and cigarettes //////

You nasty piece of work.

SharronM1/Ivanhoe - Did you actually read what I wrote?

//////I wish the tories and their tory media shit would disappear up their own privateky educated backsides to be quite honest with you/////////

I could not agree more with that.

//////strange how most elderly people I know are living very frugally and are on a very limited budget.//////

You see what you want to see.