How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

I guess the point is by the time you reach 65 you should have all your ducks lined up, you should be mortgage free and if you aren't there's housing benefit, you should have a decent amount saved to cover bills and the state pension should just be a top up and for very many it is exactly that.

My MIL has £1500 a month to pay her bills from, she taught part time for 10 years whilst DH was growing up.
That is more for one person than very many families of 4 or more are living on.
And for that reason I'm out of sympathy

Again if you can't heat your house, sell it and buy somewhere smaller, problem solved.

"Again if you can't heat your house, sell it and buy somewhere smaller, problem solved."

Yes, stop hogging all those 3+ bedroom houses and live a one bedroom flat.

problem solved.

You and you ilk are one big problem.

well that is me sunk as I am pensionless, weirdly cares don't get pensions....

you and me both riv

Why do you think that the reason I could see 15 years ago how much pressure the welfare state was under was because I was being spoon fed my opinions by the government or the media?

It's actually because I passed my Maths GSCE (can only be because it's easier than in the old days though).

Declining birth rates = fewer people of tax & NI paying age 20 years later. Long average life span = more people of retirement age.

When 'people paying NI' < 'people wanting a pension' the result = less money in pot for people requiring pension.

No crystal ball was required. Just a simple observation of demographic trends and improvements in health care.

And that pot I mention, no I know it's not a separate fund. It's part of one big profit and loss account. If pensioners profit, sick/disabled/unemployed/young people will lose. My argument is that those people can't always plan for what happens. Growing old is almost inevitable.

/////And will be quite happy to fill in means tested form when old and be blardy grateful too./////

Good old subserviant Britain.

/////If pensioners profit, sick/disabled/unemployed/young people will lose.//////

Yes, good old devide and conquer, it always works in Britain.

Why is it subserviant to fill in some paperwork that demonstrates you have a genuine need? If I ask my bank for a loan, I fill in a form to prove I have the means to repay it. Should they just give it to me because I deserve it? If I claim tax credits, I fill in a form to show why I am entitled. Should HMRC just take my word for it? By your reckoning everyone should just be able to walk into the DSS offices tomorrow and say they want housing benefit and to be exempt from council tax. You fill in a flippin' form. How hard is it?

You're the one who's supporting the idea of divide and conquer. There is no more money, so if you want the pensions to increase, something else will have to decrease, and that will be education, health or welfare.

I still don't know what acceptancer culture is.

/////where's all this money coming fromthen?////

Its a pity the same question isnt asked when we go to war in Iraq ect, when we give overseas aid, when we uphold Royalty, and now we are helping to bail out ireland.

Oops sorry I forget, we are being charitable.

but ivanhoe, the amounts are just not of the same scale. Even if we stopped Iraq, overseas aid, the Royal family and ireland and gave all the money to pensioners it still wouldn't amount to very much each because the current pensions bill is so large. Sorry I can't be bothered to look up the numbers to support my argument but as you don't feel the need to support your points I'm sure you'll accept my word for it.

Generally the pensioners do not need the support, i'm sorry but that is the long and the short of it, there will be individual cases who are supported by means tested benefits.
If you think anyone would take from the budgets of overseas aid and give it to Dr and Mrs Smith on £3k a month in their 5 bed detached you are delusional.

Please dont apologise for being yourself.

Factually this is all about how we spread wealth in this country, that's the bottom line, and our elderly people are simply not a priority.

And if you think the average pensioner couple is on 3 thousand a month, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

/////There is no more money/////

Oh brother, this one is hardly worth responding to, so I wont.

ivanhoe, WHAT exactly is your point? Do you actually have one? You have been asked repeatedly for more info and haven't supplied it.

From what I can work out, you are just having a DMesque rant that we spend money on wars and other "stupid" things when we should be giving our money to the elderly. Some of whom don't need it quite frankly. At a time when the country is such dire straights we need to save and clear debts so that we and our children (and their children) can even hope to retire at all!

Ivanhoe

The average pensioner couple are on £2444/month as of 2008/09. For those under 75 the average is £2609/month (source: Office for National Statistics). So 3k/month is hardly cloud cockoo land.

Poor people need support, however old they are. As others have said, pensioner poverty has massively reduced over the last few years, such as the cohort now retired hold the highest level of assets of all age cohorts, shortly to be overtaken by the baby boomers, who when they retire, will accrue a boost to their own net wealth levels (as they pay off mortgages, take up lump sums from retirement, reduce working travel costs etc)

It is true that those pensioners who ARE poor struggle enormously, and these are often women. But to generalise like this, when the evidence is quite clear, is idiotic.

If you want a campaign you can win, it oughtn't to be about money, it ought to be about ageism, and how we allow older people to play a full part in the economic life of society - so allowing them to work and be valued when they can, and allowing them to accrue pensions and benefits when they can't.

Sorry - should have said 'cohort JUST retired' - they are considerably richer than the next oldest groups also...

But it still isn't easy for older people, especially those on marginal incomes: as costs rise, often their net incomes remain fixed, especially if relying on savings or annuities.