How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

Ivanhoe, you appear to be bitter about many things. However, simply being rude to others because they disagree with you will get you nowhere.

Lets get this topic into a little bit of perspective :-
I am a pensioner at the younger end of the age scale. Some pensioners are relatively well off, having paid into pension funds etc. Others on the other hand are finding these cuts eating into an already smallish pension.
Taking my own case as an example, born in the 1940's at a time when rationing was then in place, and ordinary working class people were all,on a level playing field. They did not moan about the situation, they understood why sacrifices had had to be made {it was preferable to a life under the Jack Boot]
There was no keeping up with the Jones's, what you did not have you went without. Gradually things got better but attitudes remained the same for a long time, right into the 60's when I had my children, having things on 'tick' was classed as a bad thing debt was a dirty word.
So how did we manage? We struggled that's how, I kept a family of 3 on a fiver a week 'food and clothes' the rest went into paying for a mortgage. A house was seen as a must if you did not want to spend the first days of your marriage and bringing up small children living with your parents or in-laws. When the first two went to School I got a part time job, seeing my main priority as a Mother and to be there when the children returned from school.
We went without a lot of things taken for granted these days........'But hey I love to see some of the things available to youngsters these days' Its what we worked for to achieve! Time marched on and by my forties I had a grandchild and elderly parents, I nursed my father for 2 years before his death in 1989 from cancer, within two years Mum was bed ridden and needed 24/7 care for the remaining years of her life dying in 2001 at 96 years old so 13 years I could not work......My marriage broke up under the strain and at 57 saw myself bereft of anyone left to care for.
So I went back out to work on the community caring yes for elderly people. I kept this up for a few years until a bad back rendered me unable to lift patients as I once could do. [Forget no lifting policy's they just don't work in emergency situations]
So the pension I now receive is based on my X husbands contributions, I do get pension credit bringing my total to the £132 per week
then I have to pay my fuel and light bills [incidentally my WFA does go towards them] House Insurance, tv licence, life insurance,telephone and internet provider.. There's not much left to be honest, and take into to account I have to maintain the house as well, a smaller place is not an option ATM as I have to have room for grandchildren and great grandchildren visits, as some live in another part of the UK........I have given up my car because of the hike in fuel at a time when I really need it, I have a trapped spinal nerve..I'm not selfish and I resent the suggestion by some on this forum that all Pensioners are so............I and many like me gave up a lot to make things better for their children and the up and coming generation ! We made mistakes granted, as all human's do, but most of us have retained our humanity towards others..So when I look at some of the comments on this forum my heart sinks,we have spoiled the very people we thought to protect and provide for to the point where they can not show a bit of humanity/understanding towards the older members of society.

40sdiva. Brilliant.

The trouble is that Thatcher's children, the 30 to 40 year somethings today, were promised a Utopia by Thatcher, so Thatcher's children are very bitter.

Thatcher's chidren see only themselves and their own individualism, they want low income taxes, ( which they have )another car, another holiday,, they are the pretentious generation.

Elderly peop;le have not only been forgotten, they have been marginalised, and are descriminated against.

Is there any chance we can connect off this site ?

/////Being old and bitter is easy.//////

Paying taxes to help the poor isnt.

///////Ivanhoe, you appear to be bitter about many things. However, simply being rude to others because they disagree with you will get you nowhere.////////

I know, naughty aint I.

Hi Ivanhoe, I did come on Mumsnet only intending to use the gransnet forums, however your post caught my eye. I have been lucky in my children two boys aged 47 and 41 and daughter 37 who all learned the 'work ethic' going on to University and then working hard for all they have. Two eldest Grandchildren also attended University.......the two younger ones and the four great grandchildren all between 1 and six yrs old, time only will tell............To be honest I was not shocked at some of the reply's to your OP, I have had this discussion with my own children and their partners some of whom agree with my point of view and some who don't. I respect all of their views whether they tally with mine or not. But one thing we all agree with is that there is a definite lack of respect shown to certain members/groups of society these days..and the elderly are within those groups.
Working on the District I have seen first hand how some elderly people have to live..uncared for unloved, many sons and daughter,.only making quick in and out visits...and some of these same sons/daughters would want to deny them a basic standard of living as well
On the other hand I have met some children who cannot do enough for their parents, caring sensitive people. So one cannot generalise.
Reading some of these comments led me to wonder how my own parents managed 'no health care no pensions no sickness benefits when illness meant time off work' yet they still sought to improve things for up and coming generations as we in our turn also did..Judging by some of the comments here
maybe some parents/grandparents shouldn't have bothered.

"The trouble is that Thatcher's children, the 30 to 40 year somethings today, were promised a Utopia by Thatcher, so Thatcher's children are very bitter."

Where on earth do you get this stuff? I'm a forty-something and I started making provision for my retirement as a twenty-something back in the eighties precisely because I could see that governments were not promising Utopia - they were promoting self-reliance if anything at that stage. I'm not bitter about it, why should I be?

There are uncared for, unloved people of all ages & in all stratas of our society. Old people do not have the monopoly on loneliness and neglect.

Chil1234 Wrote Quote:-There are uncared for, unloved people of all ages & in all stratas of our society. Old people do not have the monopoly on loneliness and neglect -:Unquote.

Do you really really think I/we have got to my/our time in life without knowing that ?

Just where in my Post did I state that they did ?

I have tried to be fair in my comments stating that we shouldn't generalise. However many other posters on here have done so, classing pensioners as really quite well off, when in fact the actuality is quite the reverse.

In case anyone is interested in the coming Benefit cuts for Disabled and Sick people in the UK, here is a round up of coming event for Monday the 24th National day of Protest.
benefitclaimantsfightback.wordpress.com/ and for anyone who is in doubt about whether this protest is needed another Link.
onemonthbeforeheartbreak.blogspot.com/

Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
Benjamin Franklin.

//////Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
Benjamin Franklin.//////////////

Again, brilliant.

////////I have tried to be fair in my comments stating that we shouldn't generalise. However many other posters on here have done so, classing pensioners as really quite well off, when in fact the actuality is quite the reverse.///////

There are two issues here and in no partticularly order.

1. The basic State pension is just £97 a week. That's it for a 30, 40, 50 year working life of paying taxes and N.I contributions.

1. Even if all British pensioners were filthy rich, they have still all paid their N.I. contrbutions and taxes, therefore they should still receive a decent and much higher State pension.

1. A State pension should not be paid out based on "need", it should be paid out as a "right".

1. From 12 million British pensioners, 1 in 5 live on the breadline.

There are thousands of pensioners suffering hypothermia related illnesses every year to to lack of income.

Our politicians say that a decnt State pension is not affordable, and they get away with saying this without challenge.

But our politicians can afford to continue upholding third world countries.

They can afford to fight foreign wars.

How we allow government's to treat our elderly people is a national disgrace.

Now much as I mourn the fact that Pensioners don't seem to have anyone fighting in their corner Ivanhoe and no matter how much I struggle financially, the Quote I put in my last post "Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are." would mean little to me if it was meant to only apply to Pensioners.
How can I who has had a relatively easy life compared to that experienced in many third world countries seek to deny them aid ?
As to war no one in their right minds would promote such. But again if it results in freedom for repressed peoples giving them a chance to have a life free of oppression such as we have enjoyed here in the UK, again how can I seek to deny them that chance ?
We all to some extent have a selfish bone in our bodies and I am no exception, but where the question involves other human beings, their rights and their living standards...I think my worries are little compared.

///////How can I who has had a relatively easy life compared to that experienced in many third world countries seek to deny them aid ?//////

By what you write, how can you be denying pensiners aid ?

///////Now much as I mourn the fact that Pensioners don't seem to have anyone fighting in their corner Ivanhoe and no matter how much I struggle financially, the Quote I put in my last post "Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are." would mean little to me if it was meant to only apply to Pensioners.
How can I who has had a relatively easy life compared to that experienced in many third world countries seek to deny them aid ?
As to war no one in their right minds would promote such. But again if it results in freedom for repressed peoples giving them a chance to have a life free of oppression such as we have enjoyed here in the UK, again how can I seek to deny them that chance ?
We all to some extent have a selfish bone in our bodies and I am no exception, but where the question involves other human beings, their rights and their living standards...I think my worries are little compared./////

All pensioners ha v ever asked for is a decent State pension making no need for humilating means tested hanouts.

Would you deny them that ?

Divas40. Do not despair about what is written about pensioners on here. Many people are just reactionary. If you say 'it's white, they say it black'. The majority of people in this country have a great deal of respect for older people, and in particular those who fought in WW1/WW2.

I have never met one person who would deny that the elderly are not treated fairly, not by this government or the last.

The elderly deserved to be treated a lot better, and not in just financial terms. But with respect.

WE will all be old one day, I hope that those who castigate the pensioners of today, realise they will be the pensioners of tommorow.

////////I hope that those who castigate the pensioners of today, realise they will be the pensioners of tommorow.//////

We British dont think this far ahead, it's been short termism, boom and bust since the 80's, our old and frail have been discarded, and it will take some short sharp shocks among middle england to make the essex man and woman aquire a social conscience.

/////// Many people are just reactionary. If you say 'it's white, they say it black'.///////

But the simple question is why are many people reactionary ?????

Are they not adults, cant they "think". ?

Ivanhoe I did not say in my post that I would deny pensioners aid Being one myself that would be counter-productive.
What I would like is fairness for all. Okay I realise that's 'whistling in the wind' a Utopia is not something we will achieve in my life time, maybe never. But I can spend my remaining days working toward that end.

----------

complimentary I don't/wont despair ever the optimist, I can only hope that things do improver for everyone and yes I do sometimes worry that children, grandchildren, g-grandchildren wont have access to the pension/health services that I have been lucky enough to have in my lifetime, but I don't lose sleep over it either.
Knowing that they will prevail as we and our forefathers did in their turn.
As to Government this and previous ones.
Maybe they should adopt this Mark Twain quote.

By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity. Another man?s, I mean.

Ivanhoe. You've been on this site long enough to realise, that those who write here although adults, don't behave like they have ever grown up. If you give them statistics to show how an issue has effected people, they dismiss them.

To be truthful I've given up replying to some people, because no matter what you say and no matter how their writings fly in the face of statistics, they will argue with you.

I just don't think it's worth replying to them.

P.S. It's like being in the school playground!

"P.S. It's like being in the school playground!"
Blimey that's a long time ago ! Wiv me beef dripping sandwiches tucked into pocket in navy-blue bloomers.......

I wonder if Ivanhoe is one of those who do little but expect much in return.

//////I wonder if Ivanhoe is one of those who do little but expect much in return.//////

I could ask the same of you ?

///////One sad story doesn't prove a point. There are legions of volunteers who give up their time every day for elderly people. There are families that care for their elderly relatives in the home rather than leave it to someone else. In our street, when the snow was bad recently, a few of us knocked on doors of older residents and offered to sweep paths or get shopping.

You might be greedy and self-centred but you don't represent me or the people I know//////

Yes and while people are doing charity work in one form or another, the Tory lead coalition are using the deficit as an excuse to roll back the role of what the state should provide social and community care, and other vital services.

Cameron is literally fnishing off what Margaret Thatcher started way back in the 80's.

//////P.S. It's like being in the school playground////////

Yes but this is exactly how Britain's adults behave, we want everything, but we arent prepared to pay for it.

And our politicians know this, and they use it to their own advantage, and we let them due to the reason already stated.