aibu to wonder why someone who worked as PR for ITV can now run the country?

[southeastastralbeing]

?? explain!

"questioning the values" is all people like Alan Johnson can do, becuase they have no policies and no grasp of policy. They can make vacuous jokes about the nasty party opposite, but that's the extent of their comprehension of world events. They say it is ideological, that's why they are farcical.

Claig time will tell; despite my own penchant for being right I damn well hope youa re (and you have no way of knowing, nobody really does, not yet).

lady that was absolutely distasteful, yes. And showed poor judgement.

@sorry anybody in a resi unit who needs a wheelchair abovce the very basic models that wheelchair services provide, you no longer qualify for the DLA mobility used to buy them.....

ah yes very good Gideon.'

Huh? A look of at elast regret can surely be acted if nowt else.

Values underpin everything they do claig, well actually to be more precise values are simply a contributing factor of integrity. Without them they are finished. Surely you can see that

I haven't read the thread but DC was Head (or VP or somesuch) of Corporate Comms for Carlton Communications NOT ITV. His brief included such public relations triumphs as ONDigital and the £2m fine from the ITC for fabricating evidence in a documentary.

An important distinction I feel and apols if anyone has already mentioned.

Gideon did you watch 'This Week' last night. There was Blair's old adviser, Jonathan Powell, and Alistair Darling and Portillo. It was very instructive about the welfare cuts and welfare reforms. Labour tried to reform welfare, but failed, due to internal battles, said Powell. Powell said the Coalition was being very bold and Machiavellian in their attempt to reform welfare. Darling said that he had regrets that Labour hadn't done more to reform welfare. They all said that the Coalition was being bold, but if it didn't wiork, then they would have to adapt and slow down the pace of reforms. They are all in agreement that welfare needs to be reformed. Alan Johnson's finger jabbing at the despatch box is just pantomime, as is the backslapping on the Tory side.

LadyBlaBlah, the country saw the "values" that Labour had over 13 years and they didn't want any more of these "values". To hide what Labour did, they have rebranded themselves as "progressives". That is an example of their values. We don't know yet what values the Coalition will have. But so far the polls are still with the Coalition and the public still has faith in their values.

Machiavellianism is a factor of Psychopathy. What fabulous values your party display claig.

It is odd that machiavellian tendencies have become something to praise .........and the Tories have the cheek to talk about morality? Staggering

Labour never tried to shaft the poor.

but the Coalition doesn't describe itself as Machiavellian. It is Blair's old adviser, Jonathan Powell that does. And it is obvious why he does it. He has a new book out, that he wants to sell, about his time as part of the Blair period. His book is called "The New Machiavelli", so expect to hear the term Machiavelli everytime he appears on TV in the near future

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/oct/16/new-machiavelli-jonathan-powell-review

LadyBlaBlah did you watch 'This Week'? If not watch it on BBC iplayer and read between the lines.

I never said they described themselves as Machiavelli however in your post you seemed to describe how Powell is being complimentary and positive in saying that the coalition are 'bold and machiavellian'

I would say it is the worst sort of insult

Yes, welfare needs reforming: I never disagreed with that.

but there are ways.

Do you agree with the changes to DLA then? Would you be prepaed to tell someone in supported accom that sorry, their wheelchair can;t be replaced becuase they no longer have funding?

It's that sort of crap I detest.

I am not defending labour or even saying cutrs do not need to be amde.

NBut if they swapped DLA mobility changes for pensioners heating allowances where pensioner not poor, I wonder what the £ difference would be.

Not that mine even need wheelchairs and we were refused HR mobility but it seems so wrong, and I cannot see justification for a lot of what was left compared to what was taken.

As for tit might need amending- the colaition stated that would not happen (and no I didnt see it alst night; evenings not my best time)

Just because they pretend that they are caring socialists, doesn't mean that they don't have Machiavelli as their bedside reading. Alan Johnson doesn't, because he doesn't understand it, but Mandelson and Powell understand it.

My tit needs amending Gideon, that is true. But seeing as it's Friday, my luck might be in

Watch it again on iplayer, Gideon. There is so much pantomime and spin, it is hard to know what the truth is. But last night's 'This Week' was particularly good and honest in unveiling some of it.

No, I don't agree with cuts for disabled people. I don't understand why if the crisis is so bad, that foreign aid is untouched, but disabled people have their benefits cut.
I don't agree with lots of it, but I can also recognise pantomime when I see it, and Alan Johnson deserves an oscar.

'Pretend to be caring socialists

It is telling that most Tories think that lefties are just pretending to give a shit

I do agree however that Mandelson had a really large Machiavellian streak. Don't know much about Powell except he has a book to cream off

Alan Johnson was not faking it claig

He just needed to clearly get his message across. And he did.

I think if you watch Powell on 'This Week', you will see that he does think that 'bold and Machiavellian' is a compliment.

This is from the Guardian review of his new book

"By documenting Blair's undoubted Machiavellian virtues ? hugging the powerful close, playing on popular feeling ? Powell will not win him many new admirers. No doubt No 10 played by the Florentine handbook in pursuing private influence over public glories with George W Bush. But Powell's honest account only underlines the meagre returns."

Cinnamontoqst, I went to Oxford just before DC. There wasn't a single Etonian in my year at my college,

State school pupils were thicker on the ground then, under Mrs Thatcher. They had full grants if needed, and no tuition fees.

DC lives near us. People I have met who knew him through Ivan, who died this year, speak highly of him.

Sooooo, he is criticising Blair for being machiavellian, yet praising the coalition for being machiavellian

Righto

Foreign aid to India could be cut. Because India now has its own foreign aid budget, a space programme and other essentials.

I have more faith in AJ than I ever had in Tony; I don;t think he is faking it

I do think DC is

That's personal opinion isn;t it? No way of knowing.

But of course it's a pantomim: it always bloody is. The whole lot of them, from every party- you wouldn;t get there otherwise.

I've been having fun emailing candidates for the Am nomination in my area who email me to say pleeeeease vote for me with long lists of open questions on their opinions on things. In amongst them I found a human being I think, the rest are what DH calls 'Spin Donkeys'; I've done similar with Greens and LB before and nothing ever changes.

We need a return to policy led Governemnt and indeed a representative government- I don;t give a damn if Gideon / David / Clegg / Jowell all come from the same genetic line as long as there's a good few from otehr backgrounds as well. None of them mange that any more. And a lot of that is becuase the spin panto puts anyone who cares off bothering REGARDLESS of ideology.

If Alan Johnson wasn't faking it, and actually believes what he says, then that is even more worrying. What is for certain is that with Alan Johnson as an opponent, Osborne certainly won't be quaking it.

Ed Balls would have been a real opponent to Osborne. Maybe that's why Ed didn't give him the job.

India has huge issues in the villages and if the aid was being directed there I would hugely support it; there is extreme poverty there.

But I read that India's new airposrt costs almost exactly what we sent in aid.

Er, no ta. far better things to spend it on eitehr in other places or here.

'Sooooo, he is criticising Blair for being machiavellian, yet praising the coalition for being machiavellian'

exactly, why do you think that is?

Yes abr1de is right. Why cut benefits for disabled people and don't touch aid for India, which is a sophisticated country with great skills in IT and technology?