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Original poster

Multiculturalism has failed, says Angela Merkel. Has it failed in Britain?

347 replies

mycounty · 17/10/2010 11:54

"The Approach to build a multicultural society and live side by side has failed, utterly failed". Says Ms. Merkel. Has it failed in Britain? Particularly when we remember that all of the 7/7 bombers were British born? It appears the bombers had no allegiance to this country.
I think it has failed, just as it has in Germany.

OP posts:
longfingernails · 17/10/2010 16:48

Asylum is a special case, of course.

I think it is right that we give asylum to a certain number of refugees - but there are too many cases of immigrants using the asylum system as a shortcut to economic migration.

I'm glad the coalition is ending the detention of the children of those seeking asylum though.

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 16:51

I'm not being argumentative, at all, nor am I singling you or anyone out. I just disagree with your points and am asking questions of my own.

My question about non EU immigrants wasn't necessarily directed at you. I'd be interested to know the answer, though.

How would you know if an unskilled immigrant created 5 new jobs? If they are unskilled, where would they get the money to start a business?

Yes, the coalition is right to look at immigration. Surely cutting benefits and public services also hits the poor white / english though? So I'm not sure what it achieves. Or don't they count?

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 16:54

And as for asylum, I personally feel there shouldn't be a cap on numbers. No government can predict how many will need to escape from a war, or whatever.

I do agree that the system, as a whole, is a mess. It seems that departments don't share information, don't chase up cases enough, don't monitor people being assesed or the system is just isn't efficient. Labour missed a big coup in ignoring that in favour of stupid headline chasers.

WilfShelf · 17/10/2010 16:55

More racist shit from DP, using press sources which as we all know have no bias or agenda [not].

Proper, academic evidence from bona fide economists and researchers demonstrates that 'enlargement' migrants are NET CONTRIBUTORS to this country - as QC says, almost ALL come to work, and as a consequence they pay taxes. And this is true of migrants overall.

longfingernails · 17/10/2010 16:58

TechLovingDad Well, there are plenty of people who are excellent entrepreneurs but who don't come under the "skilled" definition of current immigration law.

People who open newsagents, people who make various knick-knacks, people who have a great family recipe and commercialise it - who knows?

I am a big supporter of the welfare reforms - they are in the long-term interest of both those receiving benefits, and the taxpayers who provide them. By being tough but fair, it makes it easier to be more generous to genuinely deserving cases. Yes, people of all colours, native as well as immigrant, will be affected. I'm not sure how the welfare changes - whether you like them or not - have any bearing on the multi-culturalism debate though.

longfingernails · 17/10/2010 17:00

Sorry have to go - will continue arguing my case tomorrow or Tuesday!

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:01

longfingernails (scary name, by the way) the welfare changes have been brought into the multi cultural debate on this thread, before I posted, hence my two penneth.

I agree with your point about entrepreneurs, but if you don't want unskilled immigrants, how would they get in? Apologies if I'm wrong in thinking that was one of your points. I'm easily confused.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 17/10/2010 17:01

I'm obviously not talking about people who pay taxes and I don't care what colour anyone's skin is. I genuinely think whilst we have many nationalities in this country there is not one common British goal.

claig · 17/10/2010 17:03

Wasn't there a big stir a few years ago when Trevor Phillips of the Commission For Racial Equality said something like multiculturism wasn't working? Previously he had been lecturing the French that their assimilation policy, similar to what Posie is saying, I think, had failed and caused the French riots, but I think a few years later he said that the British multicultural model had failed.

colditz · 17/10/2010 17:04

define 'Black middle class'?

The class system in this country far outweighs the colour of people's skin, IMHO.

More eyebrows would be raised at a doctor in white tracksuit bottoms with a matching shell top than a doctor who happens to have darker skin than your own. The middle class is the middle class, end of. It do4sn't matter what colour you are, rather which papaer you read.

And whether ketchup is an acceptable thing to put in a sandwich Grin

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:04

But what is a "British goal"?

Britain has been formed by immigrants for thousands of years. Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc. We are a nation of immigrants and always have been. Where did this idea of "British" come from?

You also say you don't care what colour they are, as long as they pay taxes. You also say if we have many nationalities there is not one goal. What if the majority of tax payers were from overseas, originally? You can't have it both ways, can you?

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:05

There isn't a Black middle class, because the class system is a bigoted system, it seems to me.

Who wants to be middle class anyway? All that worrying about school fees and private health care fees, give me working class any day Grin

tennisgirl · 17/10/2010 17:06

There are cultures within cultures in this country and always will be. I do agree that with the opening of EU members coming to this country that our own immigration units have not been able to keep up with the problems caused by our laws. Catching someone who is illegal and working in this country and then letting them go expecting them to report to the local police station is ridiculous.

daftpunk · 17/10/2010 17:12

I have never said I'm a member of the BNP.

I said I was an "activist". Do you know what that means?

I wanted the BNP to get a few MP's in the last election, I hated seeing what Labour were doing to this country & their total disregard for the white lower/working classes. The very same people who supported the Labour party for years. Tony Blair/Gordon Brown & all the other idiots didn't give a toss about them. That's why the BNP gained popularity - because Labour stabbed their core supportes in the back.( At least Margaret Thatcher looked after her own). The country was becoming too left-wing (imo) too PC and just too much for me to take. I wanted to bring some balance. Thankfully Labour got kicked out, hopefully never to return. I know the Tories were taking notice of the BNP, they were savvy enough to know if changes weren't made the BNP would grow.

Id also like to remind you that it's not illegal to be a member of the BNP, I'm pretty sure even teachers are allowed to join the party now, so really not sure what you're trying to achieve by bringing it up?
To have an argument with me? I really can't be bothered if that's what you want. I've had arguments with you before, I'm afraid I find you really dull.

thefirstmrsDeVeerie · 17/10/2010 17:13

Works great in my house..

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:14

I can see why the white lower / working class vote for the BNP. Do the BNP have any real policies, though? Apart from immigration, what are their policies? Healthcare, schooling, taxation, local government.

It seems to me that they have none, solely touting immigration. Is that right?

claig · 17/10/2010 17:15

This is Trevor Phillips, the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality, who is black himself

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article848875.ece

Ken Livingstone said that Trevor Phillips had moved so far to the right, that he would soon be joining the BNP.

www.politics.co.uk/news/domestic-policy/immigration/mayor-attacks-racist-equality-chief-$449128.htm

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:16

Unfortunately, Trevor Phillips has no credibility within the black community. So is not the person to have at the helm, if you want any kind of change.

claig · 17/10/2010 17:19

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article625057.ece

yes Trevor Phillips seemed to do a complete volte-face on everything he had previously believed. It was strange.

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:21

The lure of power. Hence Nick Clegg.

sarah293 · 17/10/2010 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TechLovingDad · 17/10/2010 17:25

I've never understood this "It's PC gone mad". No, it's not wanting offend people, what's wrong with that?

Quattrocento · 17/10/2010 17:25

DP It is entirely relevant to bring up your affiliation to the BNP on a thread about immigration.

I don't want any lurkers or readers actually to believe a word of your fake statistics or to be misled by your racist claptrap.

Didn't you promise MN not to stir any more and stick to the music threads?