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Politics

Depressed lefties - what now, is there any hope?

222 replies

electra · 12/10/2010 20:52

I hate what this government are doing. All the sh*t about 'if you're poor/disabled' we'll look after you - yeah right, by designing a test which tries to make people who are disabled look like they're not. Everything else too.

Do you think Ed Miliband will lessen the chances of us being stuck with the tories for another 5 years? I can't bear them.

OP posts:
Hullygully · 14/10/2010 08:01

Me too.

Am also in admiration of Tokyo's wide ranging info.

tokyonambu · 14/10/2010 08:43

If you want to depress yourself and see why Labour lost the last election, look at this: www.leftfootforward.org/2010/08/labours-lost-votes/

The main loss of votes was amongst C2DE voters (or non-voters, as they became: they stayed at home rather than voting for other parties). I was wrong to say Labour lost 9 million votes, it's actually only 5 million votes: about 15% of the electorate, perhaps 10 of those that actually vote. But for the Labour Party (adopts Kinnock-esque voice) the Labour Party to lose mostly amongst C2DE voters: what the fuck are they playing at? It's one thing to pander to Nathan Barley types in Hoxton and clerical fascists in Small Heath, who appear to be the main target for Labour outreach right now, but if they all voted for you 100% it's still only 20 seats.

Labour needs to engage with the broad majority of traditional working class voters, who don't give a shit about internal splits over Iraq and the finer details of Palestine, but want jobs, housing and education to be available to them and their children. While Longbridge was closing, the local Labour MP in whose constituency the factory and most of the workers are located was off on another trip to Gaza to parade about with Hamas: he really does have his constituents' interests at heart, as every redundant Longbridge worker cares about nothing more than Syrian foreign policy.

Hullygully · 14/10/2010 08:53

What's 4 million between friends?

Litchick · 14/10/2010 10:58

Tokyo - I had to check for a moment that I hadn't name changed and started posting as you.

Ever since Brown took over I have been saying this. I'm not alone.

Litchick · 14/10/2010 11:00

In fact I think it is pretty indicative of the way the party has been going that it spent so much time during the last election pandering to fecking Mumsnet, all the while either ignoring the traditional Labour supporter, patting them on the head with a 'there, there, we know better', or worse, calling them biggots.

Sonnet · 14/10/2010 14:08

Hullygully - Mug yourself actually ha ha ha

Hullygully · 14/10/2010 17:17

I would if I had anything worth nicking.

tokyonambu · 14/10/2010 18:40

"In fact I think it is pretty indicative of the way the party has been going that it spent so much time during the last election pandering to fecking Mumsnet,"

Quite. Labour listened to a large number of purported stakeholders who didn't actually vote for them, and probably never would, whilst ignoring genuine stakeholders that historically had done so. 1983 may have been a disaster, but the party didn't haemorrhage votes on the same scale as it has done in the last five years. It's absolutely true to say that a party cannot win on a strategy of simply pandering to its base, but it can't win on a strategy of telling its base to go and fuck themselves whilst attempting to engage with other groups who won't vote for them anyway.

Which was Labour 2010: it had a total contempt for the interests of its historic voters, and wasn't terribly effective at recruiting any replacements (apart from clerical fascists). Whatever your views on the moral or ethical issues of immigration, it is a simple electoral fact that Labour's policy on immigration is not acceptable to its own voters, and not sufficiently attractive to other parties' base to make them switch. Which is the path to electoral oblivion. If you espouse an open door policy on immigration which appeals to twenty seats who were going to vote Labour anyway, whilst alienating vast swathes of the country, you're going to go down to a heavy defeat. Which is what happened.

And in all the celebration of Ed Miliband (apparently, his brother was known at the FCO as "the evil of two lessers") it's being quietly forgotten that he wrote the 2010 Labour Manifesto. And what a stormer that was, eh?

tokyonambu · 14/10/2010 18:52

And, although we're not supposed to say this, Brown was an obvious nutter who had the personal appeal of a sack of cold vomit. Government ground to a halt because he wouldn't permit others to take decisions and couldn't take them himself, and he simply failed to understand that the idea of being a prime minister is chair cabinet meetings and delegate pretty well everything other than tone and direction to individual departmental minister.

In a past age, a technocrat prime minister with no personal charm might have worked, although it's hard to think of an example where it actually has (even Churchill could speak and write). But in 2010, a leader who is personally repulsive is going to lose, and no amount of Polly Toynbee op-eds telling us he's charming in private (when, in fact, all the accounts are that he's actually even more obnoxious one-to-one than he appears in public) are going to work. Running a disgraceful Nixon-esque dirty tricks department, that believes circulating rumours about opposition politicians' wives is good politics, happened on his watch, and his total refusal to deal with Damien McBride showed a man who was both weak and a sociopathic bully. Labour MPs knew this, and yet did nothing. Meanwhile, the population of Britain, who Labour affect to care about, are being savaged by a horrific right-wing government, whilst Labour politicians who were cowards too afraid to challenge Brown live in a life of state-funded luxury. Alan Johnson, Jack Straw, Harriet Harman: hang your heads in shame, because you delivered Britain into the hands of a cruel and dangerous government, through your cowardly refusal to deal with the cancer at the heart of the party.

I was 14 when Thatcher came to power, 32 when Blair brought in a Labour government. My elder daughter's 14. I've told her to expect a Labour government around when she's 32. It's tragic, isn't it?

PelvicFloorTrauma · 14/10/2010 20:57

HULLYGULLY - what planet do you live on? The Labour government has practically ruined this country. The UK national debts are not simply a function of the sub-prime crisis, they are a result of the spending binge that went on from 1997. Fortunately, [smiling here as I type] the Labour party itself is also reputed to be nearly bankrupt. Ha ha ha.

Hullygully · 14/10/2010 21:09

PFT - I don't know where to start, so I won't. But you enjoy now!

PelvicFloorTrauma · 14/10/2010 21:32

I am enjoying it. Labour had 13 years to right the wrongs of the world and turn the UK into a prelapsarian Utopia. Except it didn't. Instead the government presided over an orgy of waste - so much lost opportunity, billions spent on bureaucrats, spin doctors, consultants, vanity projects (the Iraq War), red tape. What happened to the money raised when he sold our gold reserves (when gold values were at a 20 YEAR low) or how about the £17 BILLION raised from selling off 3G mobile phone licences. How many hospitals or schools could we have built?

TethHearseEnd · 14/10/2010 21:45

Grin at 'hospitals and schools'

Do you have those on your planet, Hully? If so, I'm joining you because I'm not sure there'll be any left on this one...

huddspur · 14/10/2010 22:08

I'm glad that Labour are gone. They have left the country with a budget deficit that is 12% of GDP and the Government has to spend around £40 billion a year servicing the debt. They have also allowed the UK to have the highest level of private debt in the EU. The economic naivety of Brown when he thought he'd somehow abolished the economic cycle was astounding and would be comical if he had not been in such a position of responsibility.

TethHearseEnd · 14/10/2010 22:13

Tell me hudd & pelvic; when you saw the thread title in active convos, what made you want to post? Are you trying to cheer us up?

Perhaps you could both do a dance instead? Hully loves dancing.

Hullygully · 14/10/2010 22:17

Ooooooooo Spaceship round the corner, Tethers, come yere to the red planet where love and dancing prevail.

huddspur · 14/10/2010 22:18

I just thought I'd remind people of what the Labour party has done to the country before they start to get "depressed" about their defeat.

TethHearseEnd · 14/10/2010 22:19

DANCE FOR US

Hullygully · 14/10/2010 22:20
Litchick · 14/10/2010 22:40

Tokyo - marry me.

ISNT · 15/10/2010 09:40

I don't understand why the need to come onto a thread for people who are feeling miserable and deliver the electronic equivalent of gobbing in their faces.

Maybe we can try to get back on track.

I have been feeling very upset about the fate of people who will have to remove their children from schools, and move away from their support networks, families and everything they know and settle somewhere completely different with potentially not enough money to feed their children. I am concerned about what is going to happen to the children, who already have some of the worst life outcomes in the country, and are now going to be removed from teachers who they have relationships with, and their friends, and go somewhere else. Some of the parents will have various issues, how will the children manage when they are removed from their support networks and have no-one to talk to? What about their extended families?

I was crying about it the other night, I just think it's so sad.

SpringHeeledJack · 15/10/2010 09:59

me too ISNT. And moving to deprived places with no work to speak of- by definition

it all sounds a bit 'Grapes of Wrath' to me

Sad
ISNT · 15/10/2010 10:24

I just don't understand how people can be gleeful about these things.

SpringHeeledJack · 15/10/2010 10:30

oh it's easy to do I reckon- you just depersonalise it and alter your mindset so that 'children born in poverty' become 'spawn of feckless scrounging individuals and burden on Decent Hardworking People'

oh and make sure you don't actually know any of 'em

once you make it their own fault you can rub your hands with impunity

fucking bastards. It makes me proper cross it does

[fuuuuuuuume]

SpringHeeledJack · 15/10/2010 10:36

oh em geeeeeee I didn't know you were on here Hully

[furtively hands Hully a pamphlet]

[frets because her triangle bracket thingy/comma key is broke]

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