God???

[MissBegotten]

got into a really heated debate with dh today, about the existence of God. i am unsure, used to have strong faith, but, i dont know, just have many doubts and unanswerable questions. Anyway. he was basically saying that there HAS to be a God, because the universe is too complex to have evolved by chance! So I asked him where did God come from? If the universe MUST have been created, then where could a being capable of creating a universe have come from - far to complex to have evolved and must have been created. But. then that means that there must be a being out there capable of creating a being capable of creating the universe. Which means - a being capable of creating a being capable of creating a being capable of creating the universe and so on ad infinitum!!!!

but if God can just be there, no creator, then the universe could just be there, no creator = no God anyway.

butif you believe the universe could not have evolved by chance - who created God and why dont we worship THAT entity (or the entity that created it etc etc??)

But if there is no god, how did the universe begin? first there was nothing, then there was something? the big bang? there was nothing in the emptiness then 2 bits of whatever crashed together and hey presto? from where?

my head hurts! So, basically, if there is a God - where did He come from?

Well you've confused me.

I used to be pretty religious then started asking all sorts of questions like this & eventually reckoned that the only logical explanation is that God cannot exist. I'm sure religion only developed to address our fear of death.

yes. sorry. it is a bugger of a question! boils down to where did God come from and does God have a God??!!!!

I always think, that if there is a God, what does he do exactly, people say he guides us, but if that were true and if he was that powerful, then why is our world in such a terrible state, why all the hurt and suffering.

I believe we guide ourselves, and design our own detinty.

Agree Tiffini. I often see people being interviewed after surviving some horrible incident saying thet God saved them & I always think well what about the poor people who died? Nope, I think life is random & once you're dead you're dead, unfortunately.

some say he created us and left us to our own devices. that sounds to me more like a lab experiment!

that could be it. maybe God is a whitecoated scientist and we are all rats in a maze! put this or that obsticle down and record how the subject reacts!

so some people go thru a terrible disaster and say god saved them? he must also have put them there in the first place! so some he tortures others he kills outright?

or maybe we are all supposed to learn lessons in this life to expand our minds for a higher state of being?

but it all seems so random and cruel - but then the only way some people get thru is by telling themselves there is something better in the next life, instead of just facing that sh*t happens. good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people and folks very rarely get whats coming to them (what goes around doesnt always come around!)

so did we invent God to help us cope with the fundemental crappyness of life?

The Bible teaches that God is an eternal being. He had no beginning and will have no end. He created the entire universe and whilst this required an enormous amount of energy to perform, His infinite resources of power were not diminished one jot. I believe with my whole heart that this same God took the time to be interested in tiny me to forgive me and save from my sins through the shedding of the blood of His eternal son, the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary. God can only be known through the person of the Lord Jesus. Anyone can know about Him but only those who have been saved from their sins can actually know Him and have access to Him. Then will things start to make sense as to why this and that happens etc. Read the Bible (e.g. the gospel by John is a good starting point, followed by the Acts of the Apostles) and look into these things diligently. "...ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah29v13

Keep asking your questions ... have you heard of any Alpha Courses being run in your area? At these nationally organised meetings you can ask any and all 'faith' questions that you have.

This url, http://alphacourse.org will take you to their homepage where you can search for courses in your area.

I do beleive in a creator AKA God, and like cardigan, in salvation through Jesus. For me, I had to reach rock bottom before I saw/knew/felt any presence - which felt like a blissful peace to me.

Try an alpha course - go on, I dare you. Our local group did excellent food, had 'interesting' music and the conversations on some tables where a scream.

A few of my friends have been to 3+ courses, each time taking more 'newbies' with questions.

Love & peace to all, R

Interesting name, MissBegotten.

god comes from faith IMO

the personification of aeons of human faith .. all that will and belief must lead somewhere

like Terry Pratchett

You really can't satisfy yourself about the nature of God. It can take years of bible study, and living out the Christian life to develop a fuller picture.

There's no single piece of scientific proof one way or another, but there is plenty of evidence.

Look into your baby's eyes...what do you see? Eyeballs, colour, eyelashes??? OR Do you see a complex personality forming in it's very own miraculous way with only a short living history and a long fasinating hopeful future?! How can these beautiful beings be merely skin and bones? Exactly...!! They aren't :-)
God Bless ....

That's the paradox!

Why do people always bring the Bible into it when discussing god?

because Tinker Christianity is the major religion in England.

shall we talk about God without the Bible? ...actually we have been abit on the NOW emotions thread I guess, and we need a thread for those who read Marx aye MT

But belief in god pre-dates the bible. Whenever there is a god thread it always seems to turn into a christianity thread.

i agree keep the bible out for a change.

you either believe in god or you dont - theres not an undecided catagory in this one imo. if you do - he was the ever existing all omipitant all see knowing entity thats allways been.

if you dont you die and get eaten or get burned.

if you believe the former any follower will tell you its all about faith that why god doesnt have to prove anything.

Scientists do ponder the questionof a 'prime mover'

Also multiverse theory. Quite beautiful

cosmological argument

God for me is the personification of love - the more loving kindness, the stronger God is.

i am quite shallow so i found many answers that satisfied me in Why Bad Things Happen To Good People by Lawrence Kushner

God makes no logical sense whatever to me but neither does having children.

miltiverse

Lets not also forget the String theory and here

I also feel the essence of God is about Love - but when Life on Earth was not so understood, I believe that the idea of God was derived from the unexplanable, the unique and large displays of nature... The Sun, Moon, Tsnaumi, Earthquake, Trees etc.

I say essence for I feel the energy of everything exhibits the essence of God. I am God, you are God - we are all manifestations of energy - how our mind interprets this energy is is demonstrated within personal perspective / experience /faith and is how ´God´ becomes such a diverse label.

Very poetic Pap's!

From my perspective there is more evidence to say god doesn't exist - from the theistic model of being omniscient, omnipotent and supremely benevolent anyway.