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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

If you don't go to church, why not?

188 replies

ilovejonty · 07/12/2008 17:35

Is it because you don't have a faith/ belief in God?

Or:

Other reason - for example, never been, don't feel the need, intimidating, you are too busy etc...?

If you would like to go to church but don't, what would encourage you and what would put you off?

OP posts:
Jux · 01/01/2009 20:24

I was brought up a Catholic; my mum's side of the family are intensely religious, my dad was (I suspect) atheist, or at least agnostic. His father, incidentally, was Plymouth Brethren.

I went to a Catholic school where I was bullied horrendously, which highlighted the vast hypocrisy that is present in any religion. However, my mum sang in the church choir, so did my dad, and I liked singing. When I reached my mid-teens I realised I was no longer a Catholic, but I continued to sing in the choir until my mid-thirties.

DH is an atheist. DD believes in any and all gods, really, but sings in our local CofE church. I used to go with her on Sunday mornings, but found it emotionally impossible to bear. I felt miserable because I could no longer sing, I felt like a traitor going to a CofE church instead of a Catholic one. I felt like a traitor to dh who, for some reason, had decided I was an atheist too even though he knows I'm not. I felt guilty about dd as I was not bringing her up a good Catholic, or even a good religious anything. It all got emotionally too confusing and distressing and I would cry (sometimes quite loudly) through services.

Well, that's why I don't go now.

DisenchantedPlusBump · 01/01/2009 20:33

We used to go to church every week with MIL when we only had DS1, its a family mass, but a few miles away and she used to take us.

But then we had DS2 and we wont all fit in the car (she takes her other grandson).

Our local church is a much older congregation, alot more traditional and we feel uncomfatable there if the kids make noise.

We got the bus to the family mass for a while but its so much effort with the buggys on the bus and now we have DD as well it would just be a nightmare trying to get there

Hopefully DH will drive at some point and we can start going again

it makes me feel so guilty as we have so much to be thankful for and I would really like to be able to go each week.

beanieb · 01/01/2009 20:34

I was raised without any religion. I have been to church with school, for weddings etc but I don't belong to a church and would never go. I don't believe that god or any other power exists so there is no reason I would go to church.

thatsnotmymonster · 01/01/2009 20:53

I have a strong faith in God. I go to church every week.

I agree with what a lot of people have said but it makes me sad. So many churches are cold, unfriendly, hypocritical, boring etc and many people who attend church are not actually Christians though many of them think they are (mainly because they attend church)

We go to this church and it's great. Warm, friendly, great stuff for kids- my 3 and 2 yr olds love their creche and climbers groups- and, most importantly, great teaching that is bible based and relevant to real life.

These are both good if anyone is interested
this
this

CurlyhairedAssassin · 01/01/2009 20:58

Other churchgoers put me off. When I was a teenager, a friend took me to a Billy Graham thing and was manically prodding me in the ribs at the point where he said "Does anyone want to come up and declare themselves a new believer?" or whatever nonsense he said. God, I was TERRIFIED at the brain-washing hysteria of it all. And really wanted to scream at my friend "Will you STOP prodding me, FFS, that man is a mentalist!" This friend was also the same friend who, when I asked her to join in fundraising for a sponsored 24 hour famine thing for Africa during the 80s, turned the other way muttering "Charity begins at home, I'm afraid." WHAAATT????!?!??!

Another friend who was heavily involved in the church seemed desperate to help me see the light when I was about 18 and took me to a few different services. One particular one stood out. I was made to feel like a freak - I was asked by someone in the pew behind which church I usually attended and when I said I didn't go to church, she looked at me like I was possessed by the Devil and should have holy water chucked in my face. She immediatelyh turned round to tell everyone around her and said "Let's all hold hands and pray for Curly's soul to be saved", and all that crap. Why I didn't just walk out I'll never know......

Oh, and that friend whilst lovely herself had lots of problems in her family (who were all big churchgoers). One member having an affair, another with an eating disorder (I know this doesn't make that person a bad person, but to me it showed that support from a church community wasn't helping her at all), various suicide attempts amongst siblings, and lastly one member who was convicted of paedophila. NOT a good advert for going to church.......Various other church-going families I know: husband/dad upped and left to "find himself" leaving wife in the lurch with 3 kids to support; another couple not speaking to their daughter for years over some petty matter......just so hypocritical. Oh, but as long as they go to church every week that makes them fine upstanding citizens.....

I often wonder what I'd do if I had to move to a new area as I can see the advantages of going to church re; the community aspect etc, but to be honest, having re-read my post, I would be very reluctant to be part of such a community.

Oh, and can't stand RC baptisms. Attended my nephew's when he was a baby, and it was banging on about how had he died before being baptised he would have only gone to purgatory, but now that he was baptised it's ok, as Mother Mary has claimed his soul as her own, and he'll go to heaven when he dies. Or some such scary utter rot.

Also hate the hand-shaking thing as a sign of peace. I don't need to shake hands with my close family that I'm attending with, thank you. And I have no argument with others in the pew around me, so why would I want to shake hands with them as a sign of peace - I haven't got an issue with them in the first place.....unless they are of the paedophiliac, affair-having sort, in which case I would happily spit in their outstretched palm.

Dear me, I'm on a roll here.......I DO like to believe in a higher power type of thing in a spiritual type of way. Particularly when I'm around nature, or when a new baby is born etc. And I can recognise the fact that some parts of the bible has some useful stories in with a moral to them etc.

I just don't see that an organised religion has its place in modern society. And I don't think it's essential to be part of one to be a "good person" and to lead your life in a decent, charitable and moral way.

Oh, and one last thing.......why are people who believe in god supposed to be forgiving of all people? So if someone murdered my child and I was a christian, I would be expected to forgive that person automatically, would I, just because it's part of the religion to do so?! Wrong, wrong, wrong....all of it......

thatsnotmymonster · 01/01/2009 21:07

Disenchanted- would someone from the church not pick you all up if you wanted to go? If you called the minister and explained your situation they might be able to help?

Curly 'I often wonder what I'd do if I had to move to a new area as I can see the advantages of going to church re; the community aspect etc, but to be honest, having re-read my post, I would be very reluctant to be part of such a community.' I know what you mean and it's sad but you are part of that community- it's the real world and everyone is affected by horrible situations. Just because you go to church you are not immune to bad things happening.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 01/01/2009 21:13

Thatsnotmymonster, why would I want to surround myself by hypocrites, some of whom I would know for a fact to be behaving really immorally in an unchristian type of way?! I would rather stay at home. I don't want my children exposed to hypocritical and immoral behaviour.

Podrick · 01/01/2009 21:15

Because I am terrible at singing and it is embarrassing in church

CurlyhairedAssassin · 01/01/2009 21:17

Podrick! Yes, the mood did need lightening a bit there!

Podrick · 01/01/2009 21:19

Well frankly it is no good being a terrible singer and a christian - incompatible in my view

thatsnotmymonster · 01/01/2009 21:55

Curly- I was merely pointing out that it is all part of our normal society, which is sad, but I see your point.
Firstly, I think that you should question any church which is rife with these sorts of things- do the leaders know about it and how are they addressing the issue and secondly, why don't you challenge the people you know who are acting like this? Ask them how they can behave like this and still profess to be a follower of Christ. We all have to be accountable for our actions. Going to church does not make anyone a model citizen, believing in what Christ has done for you helps you to try to live according to God's word.

I am not perfect and I certainly don't have all the answers but I know that Jesus died for me because God loves me.

bloss · 01/01/2009 22:30

Message withdrawn

CurlyhairedAssassin · 01/01/2009 22:48

thatsnotmymonster, without going into details, some of the people in the examples I gave WERE part of the leadership in a way. Well, a position of authority or whatever......Playing the organ/taking Sunday school classes etc. I only heard about those events a while after and wasn't in a position to challenge them.

"Jesus died for me because God loves me". I just find this too simplistic. If you were to have a tragedy in your life, how would God be loving you then? Would you feel that you deserved for that tragedy to happen to you? I'm honestly not trying to argue with you, I simply don't understand a lot of the explanations that Christians give me for thinking the way they do.

MoreSpamThanGlam · 01/01/2009 22:55

If I saw the Pope actually spending some of his money on the poor...I mean really honestly practising what he preaches then I might.

But then I look at the middle east and think its just ridiculous.

Christianity is such a "club" anyway. If you have never been, you are expected to know what to say, when to stand up, when to sit down, how to take communion, if you are even allowed to take communion.

You have so many in church that are trying to outdo each other, a lot go just because their parents did or for social reasons.

I used to go but feel nothing but an outsider now.

bloss · 01/01/2009 22:59

Message withdrawn

racingsnake · 01/01/2009 23:01

We go into churches a lot but haven;t been to a service since dd got really mobile. I love churches, abbeys, cathedrals etc and believe in God, although I don't think any one religion has the deinitive definition of God.
Hope to go back when dd is a bit older for the community aspect for her.

ermintrude13 · 02/01/2009 10:25

The scariest posts here are the ones where people talk about how lovely their church is because it's 'bible-based'. The bible, like all the texts of major religions, is a crazy cockamamy mixture of myth, confusion and bigotry written by men (always men) who wanted to rule over other people. The bible in particular is great on homophobia, misogeny and capital punishment for adulterous women, just for starters. Jesus is an interesting character, socially and politically, who essentially preaches against everything the Old Testament says, but evangelical christians tend to ignore his more liberal ideas and get back to the wrathful OT version of God. Can't think of a more appalling way to bring up my DC than to sit them every week in a church full of people who think the bible is the 'word of God'. Yikes!

TsarHumbug · 02/01/2009 10:33

Agree with yama. It would feel a chore.

Yet another thing to organise dc and rush out the door for on our only 'day off' from all that.

Also, inlaws are v v church involved and it sounds like a hotbed of politics (shades of pta?) from what I can gather.

MrsMerryHenry · 02/01/2009 10:46

Because I find church (as an institution) to be a pain in the a*.

God, on the other hand, I find intriguing and challenging. Oh, yes, challenging has definitely been the word in my experience.

I'll be trying a church this weekend though, for the first time in ages.

MrsMerryHenry · 02/01/2009 10:49

bloss - what do you mean you don't 'fit in' with other Xians? I'm intrigued as I feel v similar.

bloss · 02/01/2009 11:25

Message withdrawn

MrsMerryHenry · 02/01/2009 11:34

I know what you mean about the importance of thinking about what you learn...on some subjects I'm happy to spend years considering all the issues before coming to a decision. I wouldn't say I'm exclusively 'cerebral', I think there's a lot of breadth and depth in human life which cannot be explained or expressed by purely cerebral exercise. But at the same time I think it's a shameful waste of God's gift (i.e. a brain) not to question. If we can question our political leaders, why not our religious ones, too?

MrsMerryHenry · 02/01/2009 11:36

There are loads of 'unchurched' Xians, by the way; people are writing books about it because loads of us are becoming disillusioned/ bored/ fed up with what I can Churchianity. So you're definitely not alone.

As for the work/ family issue, yes that can cause a problem with connecting to people - it's sad, but it does.

Countingtheflocksbynight · 02/01/2009 15:17

I'm quite saddened reading these posts - it's very apparent how the Christian churches have failed their communities - and have failed women and families in many cases. Custardo's points are all very true and their is no excuse for it. They need to be dragged in the 21st century.

As stated below, I am a practising RC but full of doubt and tend to be very suspicious of any fundamentalism in any religion but what I would say in response to just a few points here is that:

  1. The church I attend is welcoming of everyone, not at all happy clappy or trying to convert anyone and they have excellent practical out-reach projects in the local community.
  1. The priest are very humble, very human, very errudite but wear their learning very lightly and work themselves to the bone on little or no money (one works in a prison, one works in a homeless shelter as well as carrying out their parish duties). To illustrate my point (in response to religion being about money) I know for a fact that one of our priests needed help to buy a winter coat 3 weeks ago.
  1. To try and respond to one of CurlyHaired Assassin's points about the congregation of her church-going friend:

"One member having an affair, another with an eating disorder (I know this doesn't make that person a bad person, but to me it showed that support from a church community wasn't helping her at all), various suicide attempts amongst siblings, and lastly one member who was convicted of paedophila. NOT a good advert for going to church.."

Jesus didn't align himself with "holy" people. Quite the reverse, he aligned himself with the crooks, the maligned, the outcasts. He positively welcomed sinners!! So I don't understand your point about hypocrisy. That's the whole point of Christianity really ie redemption and one of the main points (for me) of attending mass. I fail on very many points, I struggle to live up to the tenets of my faith - I don't consider myself superior because I go to church. Quite the reverse really.

  1. The other reason I attend is because mass on a Sunday is one of the few places nowadays where one can meet and mix with all classes, races and ages of people including people with special needs.
morningpaper · 02/01/2009 15:31

Hmmm this is an interesting thread

I find it sad too how churches are so rubbish at serving their communities, although I guess all church-attenders need to take responsibility for that. Although I'm not really sure what people would WANT from church.

Custardos points are all good and true but there is SUCH a generational thing going on there. E.g. my parish covers about 15,000 of the local population, and about 40 people from that go to church every week, and of those, about 6 are under 50! Church-life is slowly dying out unfortunately and it's a huge shame that there is nothing to take it's place.

It's a spiritual/community/culture thing for me. I love Sundays going to church with the kids and then cooking a huge roast dinner. I'm a woman of routine and I love watching the changing seasons of the church calendar and the rhythm of Sundays is very peaceful for me. I love the organ and the choir and the pottering old ladies cooing over the children. And it brings home so much about the circle of life: love, birth, partnership, family, death. I think it keeps me in touch with the older generation and makes me understand what to expect about growing old, and how tough it can be, which makes me appreciate the present time and really be grateful for what I have.

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