Lily Philips - can she be a 'true' Christian?

[mids2019]

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/lily-phillips-has-been-baptised-i-pray-its-accompanied-by-change/20772.article

This article made me think about what it means to be Christian especially about the concepts of sin, judgment and redemption.

In my view Lily of course is a Christian being baptised but to not give up a lucrative adult film career possibly does cause angst amongst more traditional Christians.

We are taught not to judge 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' and to accept the universal unconditionally of forgiveness. (We pray every day about the forgiveness of sin) so it is difficult thologically to condemn others.

However does any fellow Christian need to remind Lily she makes money from a profession where many women with less choice are coerced and manipulated for thr gratification of men? Wr have moved away from a less judgmental Christianity but how do you view participation in Christian life with such a job?

Nope. Those are a load of pathetic apologetics.

Especially the part trying to explain away this:
"When you go forth to battle against your enemies... and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire her, and would take her to you as wife... after that you may go in to her, and be her husband, and she shall be your wife." Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Trying to say that's not about rape is ridiculous, and a quick Google search shows most biblical scholars agree that it's about rape - but is apparently trying to moderate the men's raping urges, so that they didn't just devolve into a total orgy of violence and rape - so it's a good thing! How delightful. It's a shame that the concept of 'don't take the woman whose husband or father you killed as a captive to marry and rape - just leave her alone, ffs, you dirty bastards' didn't occur to God.

Not to mention that men were entitled to have sex with their slaves, the women they literally owned as property - so, rape.

Also that apparently if a woman was too scared to fight her rapist, it wasn't even counted as rape!

No - God was quite clearly fine with rape. In Genesis, Lot offers a vicious mob his virgin daughters to rape! And then the daughters rape him! And this is the family that God considered worthy of saving. It's completely amoral.

Mat 5:18 for truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the Law, until all may come to pass. (LSV)

Quote " Err no, the God that the Jews worshipped."

I don't Adam and Eve it. So what God is the God of Jesus then ?

They're the same guy, you do realise that, right? Mr 'I created the whole universe' of the OT is the exact same all-knowing, all-powerful creator as in the NT, and he chose to behave the way he did in the OT.

Are you trying to say that God was immoral and abusive in the OT, but then he...did an anger management course, learnt the error of his ways, and decided to try to do better? Because I'm not sure a fallible and previously amoral god, who still isn't that nice, is a very good choice to worship.

Tell me again why anyone would worship this god?

Quote " No - God was quite clearly fine with rape. In Genesis, Lot offers a vicious mob his virgin daughters to rape! And then the daughters rape him! And this is the family that God considered worthy of saving. It's completely amoral."

TBF to God though. He did go to the effort of killings Lotts wife before the double incest thing. That has to count as a plus ?

And he turned her to salt. Salt was valuable then. Unless in the dead sea area.

Hah! God's a real gem 😅

Honestly, it reads like a terrible erotic fantasy by some pervy old man of that era who had one hand in his loincloth while he was writing. "And then his wife was killed because she - she did a bad thing, I guess, and so his daughters had to have sex with him because...because they thought they were the only people left on earth, but it totally wasn't his fault because, erm, they got him drunk and forced themselves on him! He was totally innocent!"

Blech.

Well, that is why Christianity had to invent/embellish the concept of Satan.

Saying you are a Christian makes you one

no one else gets to gate keep or black ball membership

having sex or what ever she is doing doesn’t stop her membership

child murderers on death row are Christian

@RedTagAlan

So then you say " and the police found no evidence that this was the case."... no. Just no. Not unless you have documented evidence that the police were investigating every claim the medium made.

I'm basing that on this quotation from Playfair and Keen's investigation, in which they say:

"As Playfair and Keen report, "We are not aware of any evidence from any of Poole's friends or relatives that they knew Holohan … Had there been any evidence that Holohan patronized the same pubs as Poole, notably the Windmill, where Ruark and many of his associates principally drank, the police would have picked this up immediately."

That suggests, to me, that the police did do some investigation into whether Holohan had any prior connection to Jacqui Poole and her circle. To be fair, it's far from conclusive, so maybe I am reading too much into it, and the police didn't look into it. Taken at face value, it suggested to me, upon reading, that they had.

But even if they didn't, there is still no evidence that Holohan did know Jacqueline Poole or her family/social circle. If Holohan was indeed known to Jacqui Poole's friends and relatives, then surely those friends and relatives would have mentioned this to Guy Playfair and Montague Keen, the SPR investigators who looked into the case and wrote up their report for the SPR journal? What reason would Jacqui Poole's loved ones have to withhold this? It's not like they themselves have any investment in the mediumship aspect.

@OtterlyAstounding Nope. Those are a load of pathetic apologetics.

You are looking at the world of 2,000 BC via 21st Century eyes.

Mankind has evolved and society has become more compassionate and fair.

Womans' rights have developed over the years.

Slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833

Until the Womans' Property Act was passed in 1882 women were not allowed to own property in their own right. When they got married all their goods etc went to their husband.

Women were not allowed to vote until 1918 and that was only some women. Full voting rights for women didn't occur until 1928.

A woman couldn't take out a mortgage until the 1970s and then a male relative had to stand as a guarantor for the loan

If we go back to last century - marital rape wasn't made a crime until the 1990s.

So a bit of perspective is needed here.

Some people have gone through some horrendous things and even some churches do understand that forgiveness has to come over time from them even though the message is still forgiveness and love personally. I had a cousin who was murdered at 20, I didn't have vengeful feelings about the criminals-I wanted them to be treated justly by the law and also hoped them to reform when in prison. They indeed did their sentence.
I was seeking how to try and help someone to forgive others and the Christians on this forum had very good advice in this forum agreeing with the view of the church that you can remind someone, but it needs to be an individual process.

default files 2017 10 forgivenessandreconciliation lt u gt pdf www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/forgivenessandreconciliation0.pdf

And they did a terrible job of it too! Honestly, I've never had anyone satisfactorily address the fact that God is in favour of genocide, eternal damnation, murder, rape, killing babies, slavery, torturing his followers (Job), incest, and so on, while Satan is apparently in favour of knowledge, reason, and other such sensible things. And yet...he's somehow the bad guy?

They really failed dreadfully at making him properly villainous. I don't understand how people don't see that God is actually the evil one in the story of the Bible.

And after all that, it's ok to genocide other tribes because they are descended from that threesome.

The real hero though, Abraham, he just married his sister, pimped her out, then raped her slave before abandoning her in the desert. He breeds the tribe that will genocide the other tribes.

It's all making Lily Philips look mild in comparison.

No, I'm not doing that at all. I'm asking why it is, exactly, that God is apparently limited by human morals of the time. He can't be more moral than the humans alive at the time? That doesn't make sense at all.

He gave the Israelites a whole heap of new, restrictive laws, and he didn't once think to make women equal in the law to men, or to make slavery illegal, and rape as well? We're talking about the creator of the universe, and he didn't think it would be a good idea to give women rights? Seriously?

He'll ban shellfish but...not slavery?

God could have passed anything he wanted into law - and hell, he could've flooded the earth again if people hadn't obeyed; after all, he did it once - and yet he was less moral than the average 21st century man. That's bad.

I have tried to explain things to you in a way that I hoped would make sense, taking into account the progress of mankind and the positive changes that have happened for the human race.

It seems you can't grasp what I am trying to tell you and are determined not to look for a positive message.
(You must be a whole barrel of laughs at parties 🙄)
Working on the principal that "people come to things in their own time (or not at all) I'll leave you to your half full glass,

Have a nice life (on this earth anyway)🙂

Yes, I'm afraid you can't explain away a God who endorses, or even orders, rape and slavery. That can't really be excused. Ever.

Odd comment about parties - this isn't a party. It's a serious discussion. Why would I act like it's a party?

Also, ewww, was that a passive aggressive jab implying that you're amused by the idea of me going to hell, to suffer for eternity?

I guess you're as moral as the (imaginary) God you worship!

Oh dear.
I'm sorry you have such a negative outlook, I hope things improve for you, I really do.

OK have it your own way.

I guess you'll just have to work it out for yourself aided by that other walking bag of negativity Red Tag Allen.

Good luck.

Yeah. Thank goodness people started to turn against the Church running things.

Because all those bad things you mentioned. Guess what book was being used to justify it ?

I am sorry about your cousin. If it was a member of my family, particularly my DC’s, I would never ever forgive and would want their killer shot - preferably by me

Erm, I'm fine? I'm not sure what you're going on about. I'm quite a happy and positive person, actually, with a rather lovely life that I am very appreciative of.

But there's honestly not much that's positive about the Christian God. I can't be positive about a God who is in favour of slavery and rape, and why would I want to be?? It's okay to be negative about a bad thing!!

But your unneeded, passive aggressive faux sympathy is noted.

It's all in Exodus.

Exo 25:8-9 : And they have made a sanctuary for Me, and I have dwelt in their midst; according to all that which I am showing you, the pattern of the Dwelling Place, and the pattern of all its vessels, even so you make [it]. (LSV)

So you think that the Bible was responsible for the policies of Building Societies in the 1970s - really ?

So where does it mention a volcano ?!

Erm, I'm fine? I'm not sure what you're going on about.

Well that makes 2 of us so I'll leave it there.