Lily Philips - can she be a 'true' Christian?

[mids2019]

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/lily-phillips-has-been-baptised-i-pray-its-accompanied-by-change/20772.article

This article made me think about what it means to be Christian especially about the concepts of sin, judgment and redemption.

In my view Lily of course is a Christian being baptised but to not give up a lucrative adult film career possibly does cause angst amongst more traditional Christians.

We are taught not to judge 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' and to accept the universal unconditionally of forgiveness. (We pray every day about the forgiveness of sin) so it is difficult thologically to condemn others.

However does any fellow Christian need to remind Lily she makes money from a profession where many women with less choice are coerced and manipulated for thr gratification of men? Wr have moved away from a less judgmental Christianity but how do you view participation in Christian life with such a job?

it’s an individual women’s right to choose. Same as same sex relationships. Nothing to do with anyone else.

Quite!

Although, the difference is that if they are Christian, they know that it is also between them and the Lord. Because Christianity is about the process of sanctification, not being perfect.

And therein lies a problem. Aren't we driven to opinion on abortion more from personal perspective rather than biblical text. I don't know if there was any safe way to perform an abortion in the first century and there as obviously no morning after pill or reliable contraceptiom. The Bible has nothing to say on IVF so Christians have had to scramble around to get and get some concensus (and failing) on this modern issue.

I think a modern Christianity leaves sexual sin to the law of the land and there is no need to the yourself in theological knots. I also think stringent views on things like abortion put off women that would like to explore faith.

it’s an individual women’s right to choose.

Yes, but therein lies a problem. If a lot of women choose to abort their child then society loses overall, so it is everyone's problem then. The Royal College of Gynacologists recorded 277,970 abortions for residents of England and Wales in 2023, 11% higher than in 2022. There don't appear to be any stats for later years due to 'delays', but just that figure alone is truly shocking.

If a woman decides on an abortion, an unwanted baby isn’t coming into the world. Society doesn’t loose out.

The Bible has nothing to say on IVF so Christians have had to scramble around to get and get some concensus (and failing) on this modern issue.

My (conservative) Church's view is that IVF produces more embryos sometimes than are implanted. What happens to them? They are people, with souls, kept in storage, probably never used until decades later they're discarded. We are known to God from conception.

From the beautiful Psalm 139, written by King David: (v.13-16)

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.a
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

Sure about that? What talents did that person possess? What might he or she have contributed to the world, to their family and society. You can't just make such a blanket statement when you've no idea.

It’s irrelevant - it would be an unwanted baby. Why would society force a woman to carry and give birth when she didn’t want the baby? Legislation around this in some US states is appalling.

People didn't know about sperm then and certainly not genetics. You are going to be in a theological mess of we talk about merging an egg with another egg or cloning. What bout genetic editing? As science progresses Christians may have to rely on a personal perspective rather than relying on scripture.

Did Jesus Christ have genes? Where did the genetic material come from?.was any of it Mary's.

I just believe faith has to move with the times and human progress

Agreed. Talked to a US relative and there are 17 states she wouldn't visit if pregnant.

Women can donate their unused eggs. After a combination of miscarriages and failed IVF attempts, my cousin received a donated egg from a very generous stranger and finally had a successful pregnancy. Science is amazing.

@Parker231 Why would society force a woman to carry and give birth when she didn’t want the baby?

Why did she get pregnant in the first place if she didn't want a child? Unless she was raped she had a choice.

Mistakes happen - no contraception is 100% perfect.

Also women have sex and contraception is never 100% perfect though I do advocate open availability of contraception and sex education.

I am Christian and a compassionate God does not lead women to ruin both their own and child's life as the most important attribute of God imho is that he is loving.

It isn't irrelevant. 227,970 abortions in one year, that's a loss of all those people and what they might have contributed. Not relevant though, according to you.

I would ask why does the woman not want the baby? It's a pertinent question. I've seen many threads on MN re 'should I have an abortion?' The reasons vary from financial, don't want another, husband doesn't want another, boyfriend doesn't want a child, etc. I am against forcing a woman to keep a baby, because abortion is the last step of several other failings of society. Those need to be addressed first. Sex out of wedlock - if that didn't happen there'd be far less unwanted pregnancies. Financial problems - how can our government better support families? I mean one can go on and on, the problem didn't start with abortion. It's a huge topic and I don't believe the solution is to force women to carry babies they don't want, the solution lies elsewhere, from not conceiving in the first place, to giving support to those who do get pregnant in whatever form that takes, whether it's towards that family, or adoption.

Yes and that's a wonderful thing to do, but there are many embryos not so fortunate.

God is loving, yes. That person that was conceived, don't you think He loves them? Wants them to have a life on this planet? How is a woman's life 'ruined' exactly?

Abstention is usually foolproof.

So no sex unless you want a baby?

I don't think there's any theological mess to be had unless you try to justify processes that God never ordained in the first place - i.e. cloning, gene editing, etc.

Yes of course Jesus had genes, he was 100% human, had a human body, he inherited Mary's DNA. He was also 100% God. Since Jesus was a direct descendant of King David, that means he had to have genetic material from that line. Since Mary was a descendant of King David, Jesus had her DNA. There are other theological viewpoints, of course.

I just believe faith has to move with the times and human progress

And I believe the Word gives us what we need today and in the future. Yes the Church will need to have discussions about various topics as they arise, but ultimately we need to stick to Biblical values and how they apply.

Correction: No sex unless you are willing to get pregnant and keep your child. Not quite the same thing.

Are you not aware of Numbers 5:11-31. The Mosaic law on how to do abortion if a woman has been unfaithful ?

It appears YHWH does not want those babies.

And yet God allows miscarriages. If a child is severely disabled and could have been aborted aren't you saving a family from agony? Should we abandon screening for Down's syndrome as it allows a woman an option of abortion? The choices that hard health care systems offer is is one of patient care born out of Santo believe is a manifestation of Bod"a love and wish to remove pain and suffering.

So Jesus was a clone?

Contraception isn’t 100% so there is always the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.

Had to be pureblood too.

That was far right God in action.