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Lily Philips - can she be a 'true' Christian?

1000 replies

mids2019 · 01/08/2026 09:56

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/lily-phillips-has-been-baptised-i-pray-its-accompanied-by-change/20772.article

This article made me think about what it means to be Christian especially about the concepts of sin, judgment and redemption.

In my view Lily of course is a Christian being baptised but to not give up a lucrative adult film career possibly does cause angst amongst more traditional Christians.

We are taught not to judge 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' and to accept the universal unconditionally of forgiveness. (We pray every day about the forgiveness of sin) so it is difficult thologically to condemn others.

However does any fellow Christian need to remind Lily she makes money from a profession where many women with less choice are coerced and manipulated for thr gratification of men? Wr have moved away from a less judgmental Christianity but how do you view participation in Christian life with such a job?

LP Baptism

Lily Phillips has been baptised. I pray it's accompanied by change

The baptism of a pornographic actress has caused controversy, but the real question isn't whether Lily Phillips' sins are too great for God's grace - it's whether she truly understands what repentance means, says Lois McLatchie-Miller

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/lily-phillips-has-been-baptised-i-pray-its-accompanied-by-change/20772.article

OP posts:
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27
GentleSheep · 07/08/2026 13:57

SorcererGaheris · 07/08/2026 13:07

@RedTagAlan

An example of anecdotal evidence?

Here - Three Messages From Loki To The World | John Beckett

This is a blog post in which John Beckett relates the experience of the god Loki communicating during a ritual.

I don't expect you (or other atheists) to view this as reliable or credible evidence. But this is an example of anecdotal evidence. People reporting their observations and experiences.

That's really interesting and I do believe people have these experiences, because the 'unseen realm' is packed with angels and demons, in my belief system. Whether some of them now call themselves 'gods' is another matter, they may well do, but they don't have the power of their creator God. Still they are interested in humans and may seek to interfere.

I also find it interesting where these myths come from, and I believe all originated as humans migrated from their original 'birth place' in the middle east and spread over the globe, developing stories of their gods as they went. The idea of Ragnarök is fascinating as it does share an overlap with the Tribulation.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Ragnarok

The scarcity of resources leads people to despair and violence, and the human population is almost completely wiped out. The Prose Edda relates that “over all the world there shall be mighty battles” and that “brothers shall slay each other for greed’s sake.” There is a constant twilight, and eventually the Sun, Moon, and stars are hidden from sight. The winter is followed by terrible earthquakes, which destroy the bonds and shackles that had contained the forces of darkness. The great wolf Fenrir and Jörmungandr, the Midgard serpent, are freed, and the monsters leave a trail of destruction in their wake.

RedTagAlan · 07/08/2026 14:15

Parker231 · 07/08/2026 13:38

You’ve closed your mind as you can’t provide evidence to support your claims. I’m always open to reviewing and researching evidence provided.

It’s like saying someone is guilty but you can’t provide proof.

Like yourself, I want to see the evidence. And I will give it a totally fair evaluation, as much as I am capable of anyway.

In fact. I had a look today. And I found nothing concrete. Nothing good. Even I can debunk them. They follow a standard pattern. The cosmos, big bang, something a scientist said in 1872, something another scientist said in 1972, the two scientists said different things, therefore God.

And the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

SorcererGaheris · 07/08/2026 22:49

RedTagAlan · 07/08/2026 13:27

Won't open for me sorry. Blocked my location. I searched and got 1 result that was a parked wordpress site.

Any more examples ?

@RedTagAlan

I will copy and paste the content of the blog post so that you can read what was written:

I can look for some other personal testimonies (they're usually not hard to find among facebook groups, blogs and message boards), but there's not much I can do if the content is blocked in your location. If you let me know like you did in this instance, then I can copy and paste the content.

Below is the content of the original blog post that I linked to:

From John Beckett's blog:

"I had a small part in a Seiðr oracular ritual at this year’s Mystic South. I was asked to provide priestly aftercare for those who received messages from their Gods and ancestors, and so I expected to help people with grounding, processing, and on a couple of occasions, accepting the messages they were given.

I did not expect to be drafted as a journalist.

The ritual was presented by the Potomac Seiðr Guild Ondvegisulur. Their work is based on the Hrafnar Oracular Seiðr ritual, as outlined in Diana Paxson’s book The Way of the Oracle. Briefly, a Seeress sits veiled on a High Seat. A guide leads the assembly downward to the gates of Helheim. There the assembly waits while the Seeress goes into Helheim. In this world, participants approach the High Seat and ask questions of their Gods or ancestors. The Seeress attempts to find them and relays the question and the answer.
Sometimes it took the Seeress a moment to find someone (especially a deity from another pantheon) but they were almost always successful. The cosmological implications of that are interesting, but that’s another post for another time.

About an hour into the ritual, someone had a question for Loki.

And He showed up.

He didn’t just whisper words to the Seeress in Helheim for her to relay. He took full control of the Seeress. Using Diana Paxson’s car driving metaphor, she was in the passenger seat – she knew what was going on (which is good thing, because much of what I’m writing here is based on her notes after the ritual) but it was Loki speaking and moving her body here in this world.

If you are skeptical that such things can happen, I can’t help you. If you accept that they can but are uncertain about this particular instance, I can tell you that I have experienced divine possession, and I have been present when those close to me experienced it. This looked and sounded and felt just like that. I am confident this was a genuine experience of a God.

Here I need to emphasize that I am writing this post as a journalist, not as an oracle. Loki did not speak through me or to me. He spoke through the Seeress, to those who asked questions and to the assembly in general. But He made it clear to them that He wanted these messages spread to the world.

In case you’re wondering why a Druid blogger was invited to help with a Heathen ritual.

The quotes in this post are from the Seeresses. Other words are mine.

Loki had three messages for the world.

Cultivate joy
As soon as He took over the Seeress Bergrune, Loki began laughing and dancing – including asking questioners to dance with Him. And then in a tone that was both light-hearted and deadly serious, He said:
Joy! There must be joy and we must make sure in this time that is dark and growing darker with war and disease and death and all the rest, joy or else my son [Fenris] will eat the world.

In her notes, Bergrune went on to say:

The carry-on several days later included me talking about cultivating joy in these dark and disturbing times in a staff meeting. He was very insistent that this is a message that needs to be spread far and wide. Choosing joy, creating joy, nurturing joy as a balance to the darkness and destruction and violence that is growing. If we do not keep joy as a priority, we will lose the most important parts of ourselves.

I know the truth of this. I’ve been struggling to find joy over the past several years, but when I do – like at Mystic South – it encourages me to keep going. It helps me remember what I’m fighting for and not just what I’m fighting against.
Loki says we need to cultivate joy.

I think Loki is right.

Build your mask thoughtfully and skillfully
Loki says the time is coming when we will need to wear masks – and He wasn’t talking about N95s (which is not to say we shouldn’t wear N95s in certain situations, but this is a different context).

From the notes of the Seeress Alexandra Nic Bhé Chuille:

Loki says it’s about to be an unsafe time to be a Pagan: build masks and safety zones. Masks made up of the pieces of ourselves and pieces from those who love us, a mask made of truth and of what we want to show the world. So that it takes the hit when people shout Witch and throw things, and it won’t break – or it might break (so you don’t break) and then you can rebuild it.

This troubles me greatly. I’ve spent years telling everyone to come out of the broom closet. I’ve led public Pagan rituals in Texas for 19 years and I’ve never had the first problem. There have always been disturbed men (and they’re almost always men) who’ve killed others just because they could. But we proudly do what we do and we count on the law of averages (many groups – few shooters) to keep us safe.

But things feel different now. Perhaps it’s the arson at The Satanic Temple (who are not Pagans, but who are often our allies in the cause of religious freedom). Perhaps it’s the threats against the Pagan Market in Texas.
Perhaps it’s the fact that certain politicians and commentators talk about how they must defeat “the enemies of America” and in doing so, give encouragement and permission to those who want to commit acts of violence.

In her notes, Bergrune reminded us of Loki’s words about making the shelter in the closets to let us recover, recuperate, and then rejoin the struggle to sustain the world, sustain lives, sustain people.

Our Gods do not want martyrs. They want us to take care of ourselves and each other. They want us to build a better world.

And sometimes that means wearing a mask and waiting to fight until the odds are in our favor.

After Tower Time, after Ragnarök, life goes on

Alexandra’s notes – that match my memory – record Loki saying:

You all know Tower Time is here: the tower falls down, but you can’t rebuild while the rubble is still there. Sometimes you can take it away in a truck, sometimes you need to use dynamite – in the metaphor, it’s a metaphor in life, you are all intelligent and will figure it out.

Odin has spent so much time to find allies so that things will continue after Ragnarök. He has traded everything and He has stolen knowledge. Baldur will step forward out of Helheim and kindle life again.

Bergrune – who carried Loki – recorded the same thing:

Odin has traded everything and stolen knowledge so that there would be survivors/continuation after Ragnarök.

I’m somewhat familiar with Norse mythology. I have only a casual understanding of the contemporary theology and cosmology of Ragnarök, so I will not comment on it.

I will say that for the past ten years, I’ve heard – first hand as well as second hand – that Odin and the Morrigan are on the same team, working toward the same goals, fighting different parts of the same battles. Whatever is coming (and that should be understood as “currently in the process of arriving” not as something in the distant future) it’s bigger than any one mythology, bigger than any one pantheon.

Some polytheists believe the Gods are so far above us as to be unconcerned with our needs, our problems, our suffering. I see the Gods as more than us, but enough like us that we can relate to Them, and They can relate to us.

What is coming – what is here – is not fun, not pleasant, not safe. But if we are on the side of our Gods, They will be at our sides.

And that’s a good place to be.

Cultivate joy. Protect yourself – build a mask. And know that whatever happens, life goes on.

Pagan Market threatened with backlash: “our daddy can whip their daddy,” local pastor prays

Christians call to stop a Texas Pagan market festival.

https://wildhunt.org/2022/07/pagan-market-threatened-with-backlash-our-daddy-can-whip-their-daddy-local-pastor-prays.html

RedTagAlan · 08/08/2026 05:31

@SorcererGaheris

Thanks for the cut and paste.

Your anecdotal evidence is a seance of some sort, at a Pagan festival. A commercial venture, which is headlined by the guy who wrote the piece you kindly cut and paste ( more on that in a bit).

"The ritual was presented by the Potomac Seiðr Guild Ondvegisulur. "

The name above was hyperlinked to a Facebook page, but facebook is blocked for me. But from the web, I think the presenter was this person. Who also appears to be a paid mystic/medium.

Events - Glasse Witch Cottage

Loki turns up at this event and speaks through the medium. About masks of all things. So I am assuming this was during covid ? (I can't date the event sorry). Is Loki connected to masks in some way ? Yes, the 1996 Jim Carryey film, "The Mask", where the main Character finds a mask, put's it on, and is possessed by Loki. The Norse God of mischief.

The author states re Loki - "But He made it clear to them that He wanted these messages spread to the world.". And sure thing, the author did spread what has said to the world. He put it on a website called "Patheos". But the webmaster must have not got the message, because said webmaster geoblocked the website for a substantial part of the world. As I said in a post above, the site is blocked their end. Not by the government where I am.

And Loki says to the world, through a medium ( who is charging people to watch ?) -

"Joy! There must be joy and we must make sure in this time that is dark and growing darker with war and disease and death and all the rest, joy or else my son [Fenris] will eat the world."

"Loki says it’s about to be an unsafe time to be a Pagan: build masks and safety zones. Masks made up of the pieces of ourselves and pieces from those who love us, a mask made of truth and of what we want to show the world. So that it takes the hit when people shout Witch and throw things, and it won’t break – or it might break (so you don’t break) and then you can rebuild it."

And Loki is talking about masks. See above re the Jim Carrey film. And his message is to Pagans, and they are about the very commercial ventures that the medium having the "possession" is involved in, commercially.

"Perhaps it’s the arson at The Satanic Temple (who are not Pagans, but who are often our allies in the cause of religious freedom). " This links is to a Boston news article, and that is the only event I can find of this nature. " Often our allies " ? Yes I can sort of see that, but the Satanic temple is mostly an atheist thing. A protest group whose thing is to fight for the establishment clause of the US constitution.

Then the author talks about Loki and masks. "And sometimes that means wearing a mask and waiting to fight until the odds are in our favor.". And he goes on to say "I’m somewhat familiar with Norse mythology. I have only a casual understanding of the contemporary theology and cosmology of Ragnarök, so I will not comment on it.". I suspect that is because the author has seen the 1996 film.

I would not say that is good anecdotal evidence at all. And I have just looked it all up and "researched" it. I don't think it would meet any of the requirements for the now defunct James Randi prize.

The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge – Psi Encyclopedia (spr.ac.uk)

Do you have any better examples ?

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/login/?next=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FPotomacSeidrGuildOVS%2F

Parker231 · 08/08/2026 11:31

GentleSheep · 07/08/2026 13:57

That's really interesting and I do believe people have these experiences, because the 'unseen realm' is packed with angels and demons, in my belief system. Whether some of them now call themselves 'gods' is another matter, they may well do, but they don't have the power of their creator God. Still they are interested in humans and may seek to interfere.

I also find it interesting where these myths come from, and I believe all originated as humans migrated from their original 'birth place' in the middle east and spread over the globe, developing stories of their gods as they went. The idea of Ragnarök is fascinating as it does share an overlap with the Tribulation.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Ragnarok

The scarcity of resources leads people to despair and violence, and the human population is almost completely wiped out. The Prose Edda relates that “over all the world there shall be mighty battles” and that “brothers shall slay each other for greed’s sake.” There is a constant twilight, and eventually the Sun, Moon, and stars are hidden from sight. The winter is followed by terrible earthquakes, which destroy the bonds and shackles that had contained the forces of darkness. The great wolf Fenrir and Jörmungandr, the Midgard serpent, are freed, and the monsters leave a trail of destruction in their wake.

Whether some of them now call themselves 'gods' is another matter, they may well do, but they don't have the power of their creator God. Still they are interested in humans and may seek to interfere.

sounds like you think you god is better than someone else’s god?

SorcererGaheris · 08/08/2026 13:16

RedTagAlan · 08/08/2026 05:31

@SorcererGaheris

Thanks for the cut and paste.

Your anecdotal evidence is a seance of some sort, at a Pagan festival. A commercial venture, which is headlined by the guy who wrote the piece you kindly cut and paste ( more on that in a bit).

"The ritual was presented by the Potomac Seiðr Guild Ondvegisulur. "

The name above was hyperlinked to a Facebook page, but facebook is blocked for me. But from the web, I think the presenter was this person. Who also appears to be a paid mystic/medium.

Events - Glasse Witch Cottage

Loki turns up at this event and speaks through the medium. About masks of all things. So I am assuming this was during covid ? (I can't date the event sorry). Is Loki connected to masks in some way ? Yes, the 1996 Jim Carryey film, "The Mask", where the main Character finds a mask, put's it on, and is possessed by Loki. The Norse God of mischief.

The author states re Loki - "But He made it clear to them that He wanted these messages spread to the world.". And sure thing, the author did spread what has said to the world. He put it on a website called "Patheos". But the webmaster must have not got the message, because said webmaster geoblocked the website for a substantial part of the world. As I said in a post above, the site is blocked their end. Not by the government where I am.

And Loki says to the world, through a medium ( who is charging people to watch ?) -

"Joy! There must be joy and we must make sure in this time that is dark and growing darker with war and disease and death and all the rest, joy or else my son [Fenris] will eat the world."

"Loki says it’s about to be an unsafe time to be a Pagan: build masks and safety zones. Masks made up of the pieces of ourselves and pieces from those who love us, a mask made of truth and of what we want to show the world. So that it takes the hit when people shout Witch and throw things, and it won’t break – or it might break (so you don’t break) and then you can rebuild it."

And Loki is talking about masks. See above re the Jim Carrey film. And his message is to Pagans, and they are about the very commercial ventures that the medium having the "possession" is involved in, commercially.

"Perhaps it’s the arson at The Satanic Temple (who are not Pagans, but who are often our allies in the cause of religious freedom). " This links is to a Boston news article, and that is the only event I can find of this nature. " Often our allies " ? Yes I can sort of see that, but the Satanic temple is mostly an atheist thing. A protest group whose thing is to fight for the establishment clause of the US constitution.

Then the author talks about Loki and masks. "And sometimes that means wearing a mask and waiting to fight until the odds are in our favor.". And he goes on to say "I’m somewhat familiar with Norse mythology. I have only a casual understanding of the contemporary theology and cosmology of Ragnarök, so I will not comment on it.". I suspect that is because the author has seen the 1996 film.

I would not say that is good anecdotal evidence at all. And I have just looked it all up and "researched" it. I don't think it would meet any of the requirements for the now defunct James Randi prize.

The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge – Psi Encyclopedia (spr.ac.uk)

Do you have any better examples ?

@RedTagAlan

"I would not say that is good anecdotal evidence at all."

But why does that matter? You don't need to view the anecdotal evidence as "good". I am not trying to change atheists' minds, I am simply making the point that anecdotal evidence exists. I didn't say a word about the quality of that evidence.

I personally view numerous pieces of anecdotal evidence to be of sufficient quality for me to believe in the existence of deities. But that is my own personal subjective stance. I am not making an objective claim of fact about the quality of the evidence, I am simply saying that I determine my own standards of evidence and numerous anecdotes fit the standard of evidence that I have decided is sufficient for me.

I think that you have different standards of evidence to me, and that is fine. But I think it's helpful to understand that those are your own standards, and others are entitled to set their own standards that are different than yours.

Testimonies like the one I quoted are sufficient evidence for me. They are not sufficient evidence for you - and that is fine.

This reminds me of a quote from another blog post by aforementioned John Beckett, which I will quote here:

"You decide your standard of evidence, I’ll decide mine.

In the realm of religion and spirituality, much is uncertain.
The choice of what religion to follow and how to follow it is deeply personal. Each of us must make our own decisions, and we must make them based on the standards of evidence that make sense to us."

I don't think it would meet any of the requirements for the now defunct James Randi prize.

It doesn't need to meet those requirements and it is not obliged to.

Regarding this particular ritual itself - I'm fairly confident that that ritual was free. I'm also not sure that the lady (Irene) at the Glasse Witch cottage is the same lady who was alleged to be possessed by Loki. I think that was a different individual; Irene of the Glasse Witch website happens to be a member of the guild that held the ritual in question.

Regarding Irene and John being paid for their work - I don't think that's an issue. Practicing occultism is labour, same as any other kind of work. It takes time and effort. They both teach classes and courses (which require a significant amount of time, labour and skill) and in John's case, he also does Tarot readings, which also requires time, labour and knowledge.

It's perfectly acceptable for people to be compensated for their time and their work. I don't see why anyone should be expected to give up their time and labour for free. It's nice if people choose to do so (and many people are not in a position to be able to work for free) but it should never be a demand or expectation.

Earning money from occult labour does not make that person's testimony any less reliable.

Got any better examples?

I can link (or copy and paste) other examples of anecdotal evidence, but I doubt you will find them "better" than the one I already quoted. (And you don't have to.) People must come to their own conclusions regarding the quality of evidence; if you think it's of poor quality, I have no desire or intention to change your mind.

My overall point is that anecdotal evidence exists for deities, because there are numerous people in occult, pagan and witchcraft communities who are giving their personal experiences of deities. If people don't view this evidence as a credible, reliable or of good quality, then that's perfectly fine for them to come to that assessment - but anecdotal evidence still exists, regardless of its quality.

RedTagAlan · 09/08/2026 05:05

SorcererGaheris · 08/08/2026 13:16

@RedTagAlan

"I would not say that is good anecdotal evidence at all."

But why does that matter? You don't need to view the anecdotal evidence as "good". I am not trying to change atheists' minds, I am simply making the point that anecdotal evidence exists. I didn't say a word about the quality of that evidence.

I personally view numerous pieces of anecdotal evidence to be of sufficient quality for me to believe in the existence of deities. But that is my own personal subjective stance. I am not making an objective claim of fact about the quality of the evidence, I am simply saying that I determine my own standards of evidence and numerous anecdotes fit the standard of evidence that I have decided is sufficient for me.

I think that you have different standards of evidence to me, and that is fine. But I think it's helpful to understand that those are your own standards, and others are entitled to set their own standards that are different than yours.

Testimonies like the one I quoted are sufficient evidence for me. They are not sufficient evidence for you - and that is fine.

This reminds me of a quote from another blog post by aforementioned John Beckett, which I will quote here:

"You decide your standard of evidence, I’ll decide mine.

In the realm of religion and spirituality, much is uncertain.
The choice of what religion to follow and how to follow it is deeply personal. Each of us must make our own decisions, and we must make them based on the standards of evidence that make sense to us."

I don't think it would meet any of the requirements for the now defunct James Randi prize.

It doesn't need to meet those requirements and it is not obliged to.

Regarding this particular ritual itself - I'm fairly confident that that ritual was free. I'm also not sure that the lady (Irene) at the Glasse Witch cottage is the same lady who was alleged to be possessed by Loki. I think that was a different individual; Irene of the Glasse Witch website happens to be a member of the guild that held the ritual in question.

Regarding Irene and John being paid for their work - I don't think that's an issue. Practicing occultism is labour, same as any other kind of work. It takes time and effort. They both teach classes and courses (which require a significant amount of time, labour and skill) and in John's case, he also does Tarot readings, which also requires time, labour and knowledge.

It's perfectly acceptable for people to be compensated for their time and their work. I don't see why anyone should be expected to give up their time and labour for free. It's nice if people choose to do so (and many people are not in a position to be able to work for free) but it should never be a demand or expectation.

Earning money from occult labour does not make that person's testimony any less reliable.

Got any better examples?

I can link (or copy and paste) other examples of anecdotal evidence, but I doubt you will find them "better" than the one I already quoted. (And you don't have to.) People must come to their own conclusions regarding the quality of evidence; if you think it's of poor quality, I have no desire or intention to change your mind.

My overall point is that anecdotal evidence exists for deities, because there are numerous people in occult, pagan and witchcraft communities who are giving their personal experiences of deities. If people don't view this evidence as a credible, reliable or of good quality, then that's perfectly fine for them to come to that assessment - but anecdotal evidence still exists, regardless of its quality.

Edited

I don't know what to say. I honestly don't. If that is the level of evidence you consider to be valid, then you must want to believe near anything.

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 06:38

One question is how does Christianity adjust to the hide societal changes since day the 1960s. We have undergone progressive gender equality movements through our society coupled with a sexual liberation that originated with the contraceptive pill. Sexual liberation and gender equality to my mind causes a challenge to established churches in that as said before to an extent churches need to reflect society and to stay relevant can't be too exclusive or opinionated (at least in the UK).

One example is abortion? Is abortion a sin? Watch as your average church minister change the subject very quickly. Obviously abortion is legal and as such you can't say it is a sin of you align your church with the law of the land but there are obviously Christians whose views may differ. Should we have women leaders of the church? The sweeping gender equality movement has resulted in a female Arch Bishop of Canterbury , a victory for women 's rights but a victory for the church?

sex and Christianity is a complex topic and as seen by this thread a divisive one.

OP posts:
Justmerach · 09/08/2026 08:37

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 06:38

One question is how does Christianity adjust to the hide societal changes since day the 1960s. We have undergone progressive gender equality movements through our society coupled with a sexual liberation that originated with the contraceptive pill. Sexual liberation and gender equality to my mind causes a challenge to established churches in that as said before to an extent churches need to reflect society and to stay relevant can't be too exclusive or opinionated (at least in the UK).

One example is abortion? Is abortion a sin? Watch as your average church minister change the subject very quickly. Obviously abortion is legal and as such you can't say it is a sin of you align your church with the law of the land but there are obviously Christians whose views may differ. Should we have women leaders of the church? The sweeping gender equality movement has resulted in a female Arch Bishop of Canterbury , a victory for women 's rights but a victory for the church?

sex and Christianity is a complex topic and as seen by this thread a divisive one.

About women-
I was baptised as a child in a Catholic church and attended a Catholic church yesterday evening as I wouldn't be able to attend my regular Anglican 8am service today which is very local to me. I like having female ministers in church. I attended a Catholic school from 4 to 19 and was used to seeing women as nuns and sisters. I respect this tradition, but I like seeing female ministers in the church and my Anglican church has 3 women ministers.

I like Anglo-Catholic church which keeps the tradition and some has female ministers in some church's.

God had female prophets in the Old Testament such as Miriam (Exodus 15-20), Huldah, Noadiah and Deborah. Esther to was a consecrated woman.

In the New Testament, Anna (Luke 2:36) was a holy woman. She was an important figure in Jesus' consecration. So too did Philip the evangelist have four daughters who were prophetesses (Acts 21:3).

My parents did not descend from Europe but originated from a place where it is not uncommon to have female ministers in church's so I saw this to growing up fleetingly. One of my aunts owns her own church abroad.

Jesus disciples were men, but he had women who supported the church and Anna was a holy woman.

My minister who is a female at an Anglican church I got healing at a service she conducted, healing from the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments so their work must be approved otherwise it wouldn't happen.

I think women ministers are a victory for the church.

The verse about women staying silent was not for women who served in the church and it was about conflict resolution. I see signs today in church's that everyone should be quiet when sermons are going both men and women to everybody.

Different church's have their views on topics like abortion which doesn't align so well with government law and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 09:16

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 06:38

One question is how does Christianity adjust to the hide societal changes since day the 1960s. We have undergone progressive gender equality movements through our society coupled with a sexual liberation that originated with the contraceptive pill. Sexual liberation and gender equality to my mind causes a challenge to established churches in that as said before to an extent churches need to reflect society and to stay relevant can't be too exclusive or opinionated (at least in the UK).

One example is abortion? Is abortion a sin? Watch as your average church minister change the subject very quickly. Obviously abortion is legal and as such you can't say it is a sin of you align your church with the law of the land but there are obviously Christians whose views may differ. Should we have women leaders of the church? The sweeping gender equality movement has resulted in a female Arch Bishop of Canterbury , a victory for women 's rights but a victory for the church?

sex and Christianity is a complex topic and as seen by this thread a divisive one.

Churches have an antiquated view of abortion and think their views are greater than the legal system. It’s a discriminatory view of a woman’s right to choose what happens to her body.

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 09/08/2026 09:18

@mids2019 sex and Christianity is a complex topic

No, it really is very simple: The Lord God Almighty’s model for sexual intercourse is one man with one woman for life. It is mankind who make it a complicated topic because of humans’ want to go their own way on their own terms.

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 09:32

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 09/08/2026 09:18

@mids2019 sex and Christianity is a complex topic

No, it really is very simple: The Lord God Almighty’s model for sexual intercourse is one man with one woman for life. It is mankind who make it a complicated topic because of humans’ want to go their own way on their own terms.

It is complicated by the church but not for individuals who want a same sex relationship. They are as entitled to a relationship as anyone else.
The church doesn’t get to decide who is entitled to have a sexual relationship.

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 10:00

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 09/08/2026 09:18

@mids2019 sex and Christianity is a complex topic

No, it really is very simple: The Lord God Almighty’s model for sexual intercourse is one man with one woman for life. It is mankind who make it a complicated topic because of humans’ want to go their own way on their own terms.

One woman and one man for life. Is this an example of an impossible standard many find difficult to keep?

Presumably being faithful to one person for life outside of marriage is to be lauded as much as fidelity within màrriage.

also the concept of marriage become a nuanced when legally marriage is a contract for the disposal of assets in terms of a breakup and other financial considerations. Do Christians view a marriage within a registry office compared to a church wedding. If the marriage is not within the sight of God do Christians seem this a true marriage?

OP posts:
GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:08

One question is how does Christianity adjust to the hide societal changes since day the 1960s

Churches need to tackle these questions head on, rather than skirt around the issues. I used to go to a large CofE church where I soon realised all controversial issues were being glossed over or not mentioned at all. In case they lost members, no doubt. I grew very dissatisfied with this and left the CofE a couple of years ago and am now with a non-denominational church that is conservative and will discuss every one of today's thorny issues, where it's OK not to be sure and have a lot of questions.

The Church does not need to become a chameleon and change with society. It needs to be the bedrock we can stand on when all is chaos around us.

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:11

Do Christians view a marriage within a registry office compared to a church wedding. If the marriage is not within the sight of God do Christians seem this a true marriage?

Churches will obviously differ over this aspect. I did ask my pastor and he said God regards registry office marriages just the same as Church weddings, as they are a commitment made between a man and a woman.

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:15

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:11

Do Christians view a marriage within a registry office compared to a church wedding. If the marriage is not within the sight of God do Christians seem this a true marriage?

Churches will obviously differ over this aspect. I did ask my pastor and he said God regards registry office marriages just the same as Church weddings, as they are a commitment made between a man and a woman.

What about a registry office wedding between a same sex couple?

RedTagAlan · 09/08/2026 10:15

Justmerach · 09/08/2026 08:37

About women-
I was baptised as a child in a Catholic church and attended a Catholic church yesterday evening as I wouldn't be able to attend my regular Anglican 8am service today which is very local to me. I like having female ministers in church. I attended a Catholic school from 4 to 19 and was used to seeing women as nuns and sisters. I respect this tradition, but I like seeing female ministers in the church and my Anglican church has 3 women ministers.

I like Anglo-Catholic church which keeps the tradition and some has female ministers in some church's.

God had female prophets in the Old Testament such as Miriam (Exodus 15-20), Huldah, Noadiah and Deborah. Esther to was a consecrated woman.

In the New Testament, Anna (Luke 2:36) was a holy woman. She was an important figure in Jesus' consecration. So too did Philip the evangelist have four daughters who were prophetesses (Acts 21:3).

My parents did not descend from Europe but originated from a place where it is not uncommon to have female ministers in church's so I saw this to growing up fleetingly. One of my aunts owns her own church abroad.

Jesus disciples were men, but he had women who supported the church and Anna was a holy woman.

My minister who is a female at an Anglican church I got healing at a service she conducted, healing from the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments so their work must be approved otherwise it wouldn't happen.

I think women ministers are a victory for the church.

The verse about women staying silent was not for women who served in the church and it was about conflict resolution. I see signs today in church's that everyone should be quiet when sermons are going both men and women to everybody.

Different church's have their views on topics like abortion which doesn't align so well with government law and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Edited

Quote "The verse about women staying silent was not for women who served in the church and it was about conflict resolution. I see signs today in church's that everyone should be quiet when sermons are going both men and women to everybody."

Here we have the crux of the matter for me. That rule in the Bible, one you don't like, that does not count, Lets just say it says something it does not. So we can ignore that. When actually, it is pretty clear in what it says.

But the other rules ? Oh, they are great and they apply to everyone.

I don't mean you specifically. I mean in general.

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 10:19

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:11

Do Christians view a marriage within a registry office compared to a church wedding. If the marriage is not within the sight of God do Christians seem this a true marriage?

Churches will obviously differ over this aspect. I did ask my pastor and he said God regards registry office marriages just the same as Church weddings, as they are a commitment made between a man and a woman.

Is this the equivalent of saying registering a birth is the same as baptism though? Isn't one secular and one religous? I do think it's nuanced as 100 years ago all weddings I would expect to have been religous.

OP posts:
GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:21

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:15

What about a registry office wedding between a same sex couple?

Same sex marriage is off the table no matter where it is held.

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:23

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 10:19

Is this the equivalent of saying registering a birth is the same as baptism though? Isn't one secular and one religous? I do think it's nuanced as 100 years ago all weddings I would expect to have been religous.

That's not the same thing at all though? Baptism involves water and a blessing of the child, naming of God parents etc as well as naming the child. Registering a birth only does the latter (and of course is the legal part society requires).

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:23

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:21

Same sex marriage is off the table no matter where it is held.

It’s not - it’s legal whether the church likes it or not. They need to drop the discrimination.

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:23

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:23

It’s not - it’s legal whether the church likes it or not. They need to drop the discrimination.

I'm not talking about the legality of it, I'm talking about the conservative Christian view.

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:26

GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:23

I'm not talking about the legality of it, I'm talking about the conservative Christian view.

A conservative Christian view isn’t going to stop same sex relationships or marriages. It just shows how out of touch churches are with life.

mids2019 · 09/08/2026 10:32

Can something be a sin of its legal?

The problem in my opinion for any religion really is that if the state law differs to regions law then there is deference to state law for obvious reasons.

This can cause a challenge when realise Lily of the thread title has broken no law (as far as I am aware) but if a church organisation refused to hire a homosexual then they would be breaking laws about discrimination.

The church has to act lawfully but when the law is contrary to religous conviction then there is an obvious tension. I know Muslims I know find this very difficult to navigate but that is a subject for a different thread.

OP posts:
GentleSheep · 09/08/2026 10:33

Parker231 · 09/08/2026 10:26

A conservative Christian view isn’t going to stop same sex relationships or marriages. It just shows how out of touch churches are with life.

Of course it won't stop them. People are free in this country to pursue what they wish in a secular sense. However personally I don't affirm those views and am not worried about 'being out of touch'!

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