saw a woman in a burkha the other day

[onlygirlinthehouse]

can someone please explain to me how it can be ok, in 2008, for a woman to be walking down the street in an ordinary northern town in a full burkha. I personally find the wearing of burkha quite shocking but to see it in my home town was even more so.

I have no problem with the wearing of headscarves, it doesnt interfere with normal everyday social interactions, but we are now seeing more and more full face veils and as I have said, even burkhas, surely this is cutting yourself off from normal society.

Is this progress? Is this freedom of speech and expression? Someone please justify this for me.

I am not a muslim but surely it is someones expression of their faith?

Why does anyone need to justify it to you?

Clearly she is exercising her freedom of choice and expression.

Freedom of choice and expression doesnt explicitly mean revealing all your flesh or being the same as everyone else. Why do you think it does?

Can it be freedom if they don't really have a choice as to wear it or not?

I dont expect people have to "reveal all there flesh" but surely its not asking too much to see someones face? Is that not a requirement of conversation? Have you ever tried to engage someone in conversation whilst they were wearing a full veil, I have and I didnt get very far.

I suppose it all depends upon how the woman herself feels about it.If it is important to her to wear the bhurka then that is her perogative in a democratic society.

I am shocked that you are so shocked. Where I do my shopping there are usually nearly as many people with their faces covered as not.

Wow,.........snore...............

I'll add my two penneth here.
Can someone please explain to me, in 2008, cultural understanding an' all, how its okay for pasty overweight western women to walk around the middle east dressed like cheap hookers because the suns out?....
the OP is shocking...

Maybe the sneer and wrinkled nose put her off wanting to talk to you?

Communication is indeed a two way thing.

at OP

Read Persophlis (sp). Will give you an education background as to why some women dress differently.

It is an easy read as it is a cartoon but makes you think.

Well I think onlygirl has a point. I feel it's a culture clash. I even take off my sunglasses to have a conversation because I think it's rude to leave them on.

Also, women fought hard for their freedom in this country. I am uncomfortable with what it stands for in terms of womens rights.

I can understand freedom of expression on one level, but then if it clashes with what we deem culturally acceptable ...

I mean, let's face facts they keep arresting that poor naked man because he offends sensibilities and his wish to express his feelings about the naked body are heartfelt.

I think it's anti-intergrationist and likely to cause resentment and lead to bridge demolition rather than bridge building.

We need to be sensitive to the needs of everyone which means give and take from all of us. Compromises, from everyone.

why on earth do you feel that the choices of this total stranger have anything to do with you?

op shows a complete lack of awareness that there might ever be any way to look at anything other than her own. sadly, thats not a rare thing.

spidermama, what is it you are willing to compromise? or are all the compromises to take place with others?

wtf?

they scare my mil

I think full Burkha's can be isolating for a woman and would hate to think (as may be the case) that any woman wears one because she feels she doesn't have any other choice. But it doesn't limit your social interaction only hers. Freedom of speech and expression gives you the right of speech and expression (which you have) not the right to enforce what you think others should say/express.

I am very shocked by burkas and I live in a very mixed area so see them every day and still fume at seeing families out in the sun: dad and young son in shorts and tshirts, mum hidden from view entirely.

Of course women in this culture have the right to do dress however they like but I have the right to find it horrible (and I also find women in playboy t shirts horrible fwiw).

Men wouldn't and don't do it.

There's a lot of cultural relativism going on here. Just because it's the norm in another culture or religion doesn't make it ok.

I want to say it's a personal choice and 'What's your problem?" --
But Some of those women in full burkhas aren't getting enough Vitamin D, either -- and that is a real social health problem considering how their babies may be affected.

I see women dressed like this everyday - out shopping, serving me in shops, having a coffee, collecting their children from school - this could be becasue i live in Dubai but it doesn't seem to interfere with their normal social interactions or cut them off from society. I would agree that i found the full face veils a little intimidating at first but you soon get used to it. I also see men in full length white robes and head coverings a lot too.

I agree M&J - but don't think this is an issue of freedom of speech/expression. I doubt that full burkha is a religious reality more a sexist one. However I do think that encouraging more women in this situtation to engage with a wider society is not going to come about by "Shocked of tunbridge Wells" type reactions.

Have some experience of this from work with a homeless womens shelter and it takes time and patience to give all women who are currently suppressed the confidence to behave and dress as they wish. If they then choose to wear a burkha or a mini skirt, then that is up to them.

"Can it be freedom if they don't really have a choice as to wear it or not? "

if someone is forced into wearing one then, no, it's not a free choice. Bur it would be wrong to assume that every or most women wearing them have not made that choice themselves.

I agree with you Kew but I'm a bit depressed that we, as women, are not more saddened by the sight of women internalising this oppression.

The day I see men in a burka is the day I'll have sympathy with arguments about modesty, freedom of expression etc.

I'm a feminist first and that's why burkas distress me.