saw a woman in a burkha the other day

[onlygirlinthehouse]

can someone please explain to me how it can be ok, in 2008, for a woman to be walking down the street in an ordinary northern town in a full burkha. I personally find the wearing of burkha quite shocking but to see it in my home town was even more so.

I have no problem with the wearing of headscarves, it doesnt interfere with normal everyday social interactions, but we are now seeing more and more full face veils and as I have said, even burkhas, surely this is cutting yourself off from normal society.

Is this progress? Is this freedom of speech and expression? Someone please justify this for me.

claricebeansmum what's persophlis? It sounds interesting.

should add that headscarves don't bother me at all. Full facial cover-up does.

agree riven and that's why I said I also don't like seeing women in playboy tshirts.

It's all internalising of unhealthy social pressures.

What would be even more freeing is if blokes didn't gawk at you whatever you were wearing.

Covering up makes it your problem not theirs. In my feminist matriarchy, men who did this would be the ones going round with the full facial cover up. When they stopped ogling, the cover would be taken off

Great point there Riven.
I am no more / less comfortable with a woman in a full burka than i am with one dressed in a very revealing way.

Also, see my previous thread about misogyny and fanjo shaving, lol!

What worries me is that the resposibility for restraining sexual behaviour is placed on women. Ie women have to be covered up, or sexual behaviour will run out of control.

It gives rise to the rather nasty, 'She was asking for it' if a woman does dare to walk out in more skimpy clothing

'Can someone please explain to me, in 2008, cultural understanding an' all, how its okay for pasty overweight western women to walk around the middle east dressed like cheap hookers because the suns out?....'

Is wearing less clothing equates to being a hooker.

FWIW I don't like playboy clothing, and I object to the objectification of women by porn, but I don't think that wearing a tee shirt makes you a slut, or should allow other people to treat you like one.

I believe it is an expression of the acceptance of oppression. Muslim women see it as being free from the chains of sexual desire but if this were an equal culture then surely men would wear the same. I find it offensive and ostrasizing, we rely on facial expression to communicate in 2008 and this cannot be done. At risk of sounding like a Daily Mail reader I think that if you live in the country there are a few customs that should be observed and everything else is your own choice. I love this country for most of it's acceptance and tolerance but feel too much is cloaked in PC ethics that we are too afraid to comment. Besides I have heard women complain about the reaction to the Burkha, who wear it, and feel this is some sort of prejudice on the part or others, I see it as a tool to exclude the wearer.

oh i agree with your last post M&J . really; some mens oppressive gawking or leering ought to be dealt with as a problem for THEM not us.

but i dont think theres anything wrong with nakedness either. it may not look pretty to me, i may even grimace and judge someone a poor dresser when they have copious bulging flesh on show - but so what? theyre not doing anything to me, why do i or anyone else have any right to dictate what anyone else is wearing??

Many modern educated muslim thinkers agree that the Burkha was worn in countries that had sand storms and was practical and has very very little to do with religion.

You might find this article interesting. Ultimately,imo, wearing the burqua/niqab has nothing to do with faith (even though supporters claim it is)but is about the insidious erasure of women from mainstream society. The fact that some women in the UK willingly participate in this farce is saddening, imo.

Spokette, you are a guru of good links!!

I saw a lady in full burkha the other day and thought I would actually like to wear one sometimes. I was having a very bad day and thought might be nice to be able to hide like that. NOt being flippant, I'm serious. I thought nothing more of it though. It's her choice and she should be free to wear what she likes.

"What worries me is that the resposibility for restraining sexual behaviour is placed on women. Ie women have to be covered up, or sexual behaviour will run out of control.

It gives rise to the rather nasty, 'She was asking for it' if a woman does dare to walk out in more skimpy clothing"

I totally agree. I think that this idea that women have to cover themselves because men can't be trusted to control themselves is insulting. It's insulting for men too.

Though I do think I should, if I choose, have the freedom to walk naked to work without being told I was 'asking for it'.

Why is the onus always on women to cover up but not the men fgs?

Posie, I spend too much time reading articles on the internet!!

And as I have said before (because I am so boring) what's interesting is that women who wear the burka and women who are lapdancers use the same terminology to justify their choices: "it's so freeing", "it's liberating", "it's empowering".

These are both just different ways of dealing with what they view as the power of men's gaze - either hide from it or flaunt yourself in front of it.

Both are depressing. How about not worrying about men's gaze and getting on with your own productive life, dressed in clothes that allow you to pass through the world in a comfortable and practical fashion (and aesthetically pleasing to yourself), as men do, without having to be hyper sexually attractive or hyper invisible all the time.

.

Margoandjerry........I couldn't agree more.

Exactly Margo. Both groups justify their choices in terms of how they want to be viewed by men.

thats how i try to live m&j. or at least how i want to

What I find annoying is a whole family in the hot sunshine, Dad in shorts, kids in summer attire and Mother in full burkha with gloves....... I have to stop myself from asking her why or talking loudly speaking about oppression

Or full burkha in the sea.