If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

[Nutcracks]

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

So you’re expecting us to believe in god but can’t provide any proof?

I don’t expect you to believe anything. My comprehension of existence is potentially much broader than yours. I don’t believe everything can be studied through scientific methodology. This methodology is designed to study the rules of the universe. My understanding of what you might call god is that god is outside the rules of the universe, what concrete proof were you looking for?

No one is outside the rules of the universe - an impossibility. So much I’m hearing seems to be fantasy and in people’s imagination.

I don't think anyone can debate faith. The word derives from the Latin "fidere" which means "to trust". You either have it or you don't. Scientific evidence is not a tenet of it, anymore than it is of love or any other emotion. I'm not religious but I see no point in challenging someone's faith and demanding that they prove their God exists because they cannot. Likewise arguing about the contents of the Bible, Quran or Torah. If you want to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew, these are the rules and beliefs you must follow. If the holy books state that non believers or sinners (as defined by those rules) will burn in hell, or that you shall not commit adultery and yet you strongly disagree then you are clearly in the wrong place. It's like joining a table tennis club and asking why you can't play golf.

I like the quote by Lon milo Duqette “of course it’s all in your mind, you just have no idea how big your mind is”

You don’t know how close you come with thinking its in people’s imagination

I don’t think anyone is claiming god is any one, but something else and ultimately Nothing or more accurately No Thing. How do you know if this is outside the rules of the universe?

I suggest you study the Big Bang theory - I can send useful material if required.

Oh I know all about the Big Bang theory thanks. Interestingly it is extremely similar to the Kabbalistic story of the shattering to the vessels - I can send some information to you about this.

What do you think about the black hole theory?

I’ve read some research re quantum computing strongly suggesting the multiverse model. Any thoughts about that? Quite happy to discuss scientific models of the universe. I’m quite interested in the various ways people seek to frame their understanding of everything (and nothing)

@ginasevern Thank you! Hear hear. Agree totally.

Or, in the case with some folk here, in addition to not joining the tennis club, objecting to the club, hating the fact the club offers free membership to those who agree to the rules, hating the fact the marketing department advertise the free membership to those who agree to the rules, and also demanding the members no longer play tennis because it’s a made up game with made up rules and therefore doesn’t exist. Or, merely stand outside the club, stamping their feet in objection because the members continue to play, just because they can. It was ever thus, and will continue to be this way until Christ returns in a blaze of glory 🤣🤣

Returning to the subject of the opening post, there will be no doubt of the return of Jesus. It won’t be some random poor deluded guy merely saying he is the returning Jesus, because as the Bible tells us, EVERY eye shall see Him. So no, I would not believe said random poor deluded guy.

I'm really glad you brought up the Universe, Big Bang etc. A few months ago I came across a Christian Canadian Astrophysicist who talks about all these things in relation to God. He's a really good speaker, too.

Thanks I’ll listen to that when I get home - always keen to explore as much as possible

if Jesus ever returned chances are he would be put into Gitmo bay due to his risk to national security, society would hardly bow down and worship the being, they would in stead go to war to protect humanity

I can assure you that Jesus NEVER claimed to be the son of God. It is a false attribution by those who never met or known Jesus personally but, rather hearsay.

If you were to read the bibles and the many versions of it, you can still find where Jesus saying to his disciples to worship our Father, who is in Heaven, my Lord and your Lord.

Something to that effect as I am paraphrasing without the correct reference due to my circumstances.

Jesus never claimed divinity, ever, it's all made up after him by those who compromised Jesus's correct teaching with pagan worship.

No offence to anyone but, if you speak to learnered Christian scholars, you shall find that this is true. Just as Xmas has nothing to do with Jesus as he wasn't born in cold December month but rather during Spring months of April/May.

Hmmm, this is a position held by some cults that erroneously claim the title ‘christian’.

I can assure you that although He may not have said the three words “I am God”, on many occasions Christ Jesus Himself claimed His deity and also made it clear He was God incarnate. https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html

None of that means that Jesus considered himself God. Some Jews thought he was the messiah, many others thought he was not. Have you ever seen the “He’s a very naughty boy/only the true messiah would deny he was the messiah scene in Lofe of Brian - this is most likely a truer reflection of the true Jesus than most things said in church.

Christianity itself began as a cult, a Jewish Jesus cult. Over the centuries it has carried on some of the most dangerous activities recognised as cultish. Following a leader unquestionably- look at the deaths and torture carried out at the behest of Christian’s leaders over the centuries.

More esoteric Christian practices, ones that find God and Christ within, do not carry this danger or distraction. These people do not “erroneously call themselves Christian” they are following the teachings of Jesus, mainly have a level of erudition within this view of Christianity that many orthodox Christians who rely on the exoteric don’t.

No offence to anyone but, if you speak to learnered Christian scholars, you shall find that this is true.

Funnily enough, one of my pastors is a 'learned Christian scholar' and he completely disagrees with you, in fact he defines what you believe in as heresy.

So can you ask him where in the bible Jesus says he is God? Interested to hear from him. Heresy tends to be against church doctrine, we’re not talking church doctrine here we’re talking biblical contents.

Will do, will let you know. 🙂

Fantastic, look forward to hearing his views-thanks

Before we get that far, might take awhile to get a reply from him, is the statement in John 10:30: "I and the Father are one" not evidence enough for you? The Greek word for "one" is "ἕν" (hen), which signifies unity and singularity. In this context, "one" does not merely imply agreement or harmony but rather an essential oneness in nature and essence.

Yes, this is found in most mystic traditions, the idea that the goal is to have unity with God. These people prevailing Jewish mystic tradition at the time of Jesus was chariot mysticism - do called because it sought to replicate the ascent to the heavens travelling through the 7 realms of heaven to seek out and unite with the throne of God (incidentally this Jewish mystical journey is also described by Paul in 2 Corinthians 12 - 1 Corinthians 12 - what a coincidence- should especially be read in this light). It is about gaining unity with God through surrender and self sacrifice - it’s obtainable by us all. It’s nothing to do with the trinity of Jesus being Gods son. I presume your pastor will know this. But looking forward to hearing from him

Direct Claims to Divinity

John 10:30

"I and the Father are one."

This statement led to accusations of blasphemy from the Jewish leaders because they understood it as a claim to be God (John 10:33).

John 8:58

"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

Here, Jesus uses the phrase "I am," echoing God's self-revelation to Moses in Exodus 3:14 ("I AM WHO I AM"). The Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy after this statement.

Basically if you cannot control the masses via human laws, then they will be ruled by spiritual laws it seems yet the authors of all is human

Well I guess it wasn’t Jesus’s fault of the Jewish priests misconstrued what he was saying. They weren’t the first or the last religious leaders to misinterpret what Jesus was saying orthodox Christians have been doing this for 2000 years.

”I and the father are one” - see previous comments about mysticism.

John 8:55 needs to be read in the context of the whole of Chapter 8. Again is indicates that Jesus had completed the journey through heaven previously described. It is stating that the priest might claim authority being descended from Abraham, but Jesus is claiming authority from something more eternal Ehyehit means I am and I will be, I believe the proper rendering of Ehyeh Asher Eyheh is not I am what I will be, Jesus is saying that God is the important authority both before and after Abraham therefore the Priests stating their authority because they are descended from Abraham is irrelevant. Jesus has already ascended to heaven and achieved unity by entering the realm of the throne of God (this is how he met Abraham).

Eyheh not sure where the it suffix came from😀

One further thought on the Son of God malarkey is in the context of Genesis 6:1-4, the “Sons of God” being horney Angels who had sex with human women how do people who say Jesus was the Son of God tie this into the earlier description of “Sons of God”. Both clearly looked at the merging of divine creatures and mankind. Interesting also the description of the women as the “daughters of Man” Let us not forget the description of the conception of Jesus. An Angel coming from heaven. an earthly woman getting pregnant look at the wording in Luke 1:30-32 and compare with Genesis 6. Interestingly the Genesis story is sometimes used to describe the origins of demons (note in early Judaism angels weren’t always good and demons weren’t always bad- both were under the control of YHWH),

Genesis

6 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, z“My Spirit shall not abide in1 man forever, afor he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim2 were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

The obviously reflecting of Luke 1Nd Genesis 6 is clearly not coincidental both talk about the spirit of God/Holy Spirt, Sons of men and Jesus uses the title of Son (rather than Daughter) of God- so what do Christians think this means?