Christian Spiritualism

[rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo]

I’m wanting to find out more about Christian Spiritualism and was wondering if anyone might have an recommendations for resources/books/courses/groups and so on?

Yes as I was saying - realisation of what we are.

I think there’s some confusion over the purpose of rituals here, so sorry if I’ve caused that in any way. The rituals are part of the self realising journey, some of which involves buffering from bright shiny objects that will distract you from following the path which I think is slightly different, so apologies if any of my previous posts weren’t clear .

Happy to discuss but not sure this has anything to do with the OPs question.

@Feelingathomenow

Happy to discuss but not sure this has anything to do with the OPs question.

It's simply a compare and contrast with Christian beliefs exercise. Getting to grips with what you/other people believe would encompass as following Christ/Christian and how Spiritualism (of the mediumship kind) might fit in with that.

Both you and @Sorciere1 do not primarily identify as Christians (I was trying to clarify some of your beliefs earlier) but have a lot to say about how the beliefs and practices of Spiritualism are completely harmonious to Christianity.

But that was what I’m saying - orthodox Christian’s don’t have a Mano ploy on understanding the Christian faith. Someone wanting to understand how a tree grows wouldn’t need to be a tree. In fact, being able to step back and move around the tree, look at it from different angles, take samples, compare it to other living organisms probably had a better chance at knowing how that tree grows. Now, the person who is not a tree will never be able to understand what it feels like to be a tree. But that is not in point. Christianity has a set of documents people are relying upon to say whether or not something is allowed. As someone who can walk away and look at things from several angles then this helps me to see what is being said, and whether it is being said consistently. No one is saying orthodox Christian’s might not feel comfortable using a medium, that is their own internal experience which no one has the right to challenge, although the external evidence on which their feelings are based is open for all to examine

monopoly rather!

In fact, being able to step back and move around the tree, look at it from different angles, take samples, compare it to other living organisms probably had a better chance at knowing how that tree grows. Now, the person who is not a tree will never be able to understand what it feels like to be a tree. But that is not in point.

@Feelingathomenow, isn't it? The Christian faith is not something that can be properly understood through the scientific method understanding The Bible and other religious text is not simply a matter of literary criticism. This would totally ignore the interactive spiritual nature of the Christian faith. Incidentally, I don't know what type of spirits you would communicate with according to your beliefs or indeed if you do but if you did would you tell a tree that you understand trees better than they do? Seems quite disrespectful to me.

@Feelingathomenow and you seem to be aligning yourself with the scientist in your analogy but you're not exactly unbiased are you?

@Feelingathomenow point being you cannot truly see something properly from all angles if your vision is distorted by how your brain interprets the information it receives from the eyes.

I don’t think it’s disrespectful at all, I don’t get your point. I stated that I couldn’t tell a Christian how they felt. Mind you it’s unlikely that another Christian could tell a fellow Christian hole they felt because everyone is different.

Going back to the tree analogy, while that tree would be the world expert on how that tree felt, it might not have a clue on how it grows, someone would not need to be a tree to work that out.

As I said we are looking at external sources written between around 3000 and 2000
years ago. anyone can read them, anyone can lol at the contemporary society and potential agendas behind the words. There’s no feelings involved in this. The question became is it possible for spiritualism to sit side by side with Christianity? This is a matter of interpretation of the bible. It is not a question to be answered by an individuals fear or prejudices. The question is what does the bible allow/disallow and for whom? If individual Christians or groups of Christian’s disagree then it is open to debate - which this post has been but, arguments need to be backed up by facts/or in this case biblical interpretations not feelings. If an individual wants to use those feelings to guide themselves great, they can share those feelings but they need to recognise them as just that, feelings.

Have you ever sat in a spiritualist circle, either open or closed?

Have you ever sat in a spiritualist circle, either open or closed?

@Feelingathomenow, no and I wouldn't. I know people who have used Ouija boards. In my year at school a classmate came in terrified as it predicted their death at a young age. They did die in a car crash not many years afterwards and there is a tree planted at my school. Certain family members have mine have also had some very disturbing experiences with the occult.

As I said we are looking at external sources written between around 3000 and 2000

As I said, the Christian faith encompasses more than what can externally be seen, since it involves faith!

Even the scientist is subjective, in what he experiments on, what methods he uses, what the purpose of his research will be. The difference is in what is being studied. If he is looking at the physical aspects of something that is accessible to everyone then he doesn’t need to be that something to study it.

You started out by saying that because I wasn’t a Christian I wouldn’t be able to state what the Bible said. I said you don’t need to be an orthodox Christian to read and understand the bible (I’ve probably read more of it and more explanations about it than a lot of Christian’s- which is fine - many people are Christians due yo their personal feelings and emotions. But their feelings and emotions don’t mean they know what the rule book says. I‘ve been to many rugby matches. I love the atmosphere, it’s quite exciting, I like having a beer watching the game, spending time with friends. I have vague understandings of kick it forward through it back, run with it over the line then kick it between the goals. It’s enough for me to enjoy it, take part in the spectating, have a great afternoon- but I couldn’t referee a game

Going back to the tree analogy, while that tree would be the world expert on how that tree felt, it might not have a clue on how it grows, someone would not need to be a tree to work that out.

@Feelingathomenow, the person working that out would only know how a tree grows according to their own understanding. You might know for example what how the biochemicals react but not exactly what initiates the reaction or series of reactions. The tree might know this, how for example they decide to grow to provide support for an aged ailing member of their species. (Trees sometimes appear do this).

I’m sorry for the loss of the child from your school. I would caution people from randomly dabbling in such things. Things are best kept initiatory for a reason. However, did you know a spiritualist medium isn’t allowed to give predictions?

Of course it involves faith, but faith isn’t where the rules you are supposed to follow are set out. For all Christian’s they are set out in the books are the gospels they consider to be the word of God (te gospels and books changes between different types of Christian’s) and potentially the liturgy/rules/doctrine of their particular flavour of Christianity. Faith plays a part
in how they use these words for themselves but everyone can read the rules and look at the most likely explanation when they were written.

Even the scientist is subjective, in what he experiments on, what methods he uses, what the purpose of his research will be.

@Feelingathomenow, I agree but they should declare their interests and list the priors, if they are being true to the scientific method.

However, did you know a spiritualist medium isn’t allowed to give predictions?

@Feelingathomenow, no but I also don't know how possible it is for a medium to stay in control.

As a Christian bottom line is I trust in God, not people. Because people are fallible.

but faith isn’t where the rules you are supposed to follow are set out.

@Feelingathomenow, interesting statement. What do you understand of the concept of grace?

But if all trees, across all species reacted to the ailing family member in the same way the scientist would know that there was a likely link. If it was just that tree who reacted like that and had no experience of other trees, it might believe it was growing like that because a realise was ill. This is their valid experience but it might not be the reasons all trees grew. A scientist could step back and look at their understanding.

yes a scientist would not be able to discern individual internal emotions, but they could look for external evidence and patterns which they could study. They can learn the language being used to understand what is being said when thoughts and feelings are expressed.

But if all trees, across all species reacted to the ailing family member in the same way the scientist would know that there was a likely link. If it was just that tree who reacted like that and had no experience of other trees, it might believe it was growing like that because a realise was ill. This is their valid experience but it might not be the reasons all trees grew. A scientist could step back and look at their understanding.

@Feelingathomenow, it is an observed phenomenon. Some scientists have hypothesised what we have understood simply as 'growth' could be understood as a form of movement.

What I understand it was a word used, actually very often by Paul iof God choosing to give his favour to those, even who didn’t deserve it and this was then used by the re wouldn't to influence how they acted. Nothing to do with the rules set out in the Bible though

And this is because they have observed many trees that act in the same way, rather than the way a single tree thinks it’s acting

They can learn the language being used to understand what is being said when thoughts and feelings are expressed.

@Feelingathomenow, language can be elusive, though. Meanings evolve and change. There are regional variations. Meanings can be lost simply between one person and another as we all use language slightly differently. I believe what ties it all together is spirit which can often be communicated without saying a word.

And this is because they have observed many trees that act in the same way, rather than the way a single tree thinks it’s acting

@Feelingathomenow, really? It's something of a leap. What initiated the hypothesis do you think?

Nothing to do with the rules set out in the Bible though

@Feelingathomenow, so you think the Christian faith is about rules? Why do you think Jesus Christ came to live amongst us? There were plenty of rules detailed in the OT.

Yes meanings can change and words changed through translation. But the purpose of words is to communicate. The Hebrews consider letters and words sacred, they have exact meanings understood the way the words would be read. Although the NT was written in Greek there were similar thoughts and often an interplay between the written Greek and spoken Aramaic. We can’t use the rules we apply to 21st century English texts to those.

well that is difficult to know for certain without speaking with the person who came up with the hypothesis.

well that is difficult to know for certain without speaking with the person who came up with the hypothesis

@Feelingathomenow, exactly my point!