Christian Spiritualism

[rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo]

I’m wanting to find out more about Christian Spiritualism and was wondering if anyone might have an recommendations for resources/books/courses/groups and so on?

Well the Christian faith is an extension of the Jewish one. Yes there are rules which set out what you can and cannot do. Or do you think Christianity is different for everyone, with a different reality for everyone. Why do you think spiritualism is incompatible with Christianity- because of rules in the bible or because of something you feel inside?

Well we can’t speak with people from the past. But we can look at trends, at language, society, culture, their wider life, what their motivations might be. History is somewhat circular and human beings fairly constant. By understanding as much as we can about all these things the closer we will get to understanding what is being said.

Well the Christian faith is an extension of the Jewish one. Yes there are rules which set out what you can and cannot do. Or do you think Christianity is different for everyone, with a different reality for everyone.

@Feelingathomenow, if it were the same as Judaism, Jesus would not have criticised the Pharisees and scribes. They followed 'the rules'. I don't think Christianity is different for everyone although full Christian unity has yet to be achieved. We all worship the same spirit of God through Jesus Christ who is with us as believers - this unifies us. Our expression of our Christian experience may be different as we all have individual ways of expressing ourselves but the spirit in which we do so is the same.

Well we can’t speak with people from the past.

@Feelingathomenow so why are you encouraging the engagement in mediumship?

I do believe we can communicate with spirit, as a Christian I believe we communicate with God on a spiritual level. And as such am wary of mediumship which involves inviting random (?) spirits that are present to communicate through you, taking over your speech, if they wish to.

I’m not “encouraging” mediumship, it’s not for me and does not form part of my practice although I have previously sat in circles. You will note from my first comments I am a skeptic (although I recently had one very accurate experience which I couldn’t explain) but it’s the fact people are saying it is incompatible with Christianity which I don’t believe it is. I think trying to push the point home by quoting some homophobic 21st century version of the charlatans who were 80s TV evangelists really tipped me over the edge. Do people really think such con artists are good people and should be believed because they “love Jesus Christ”?

What I am encouraging is for people to find their own paths rather than being put off by others stating things which I feel are incorrect or certainly not the only interpretation. I’ve simply offered an interpretation of the bible which I believe is more consistent with the original meaning as that fits the contemporary language, society, history and culture and what we know of the individuals who wrote the bible.

As you know I believe there are many paths - it would be truest bizarre if there was only one “right path” the access to which was basically an accident of birth, unless of course, you’re suggesting some humans are more worthy than others.

So, I’ve asked this question multiple times on this thread. No one has answered.- what do you think happens to mediums who profess to work in the name of Jesus after they die? Do they go to heaven or to hell?

@Feelingathomenow ah, my apologies you are skeptical of mediumship - but you do not think it incompatible with Christianity. You seem to be focusing on all the negatives with regards to the Christian church, tv envangelists that you see spouting homophobia, the crimes and atrocities committed by members of the established church, various schisms. The sad fact is that people who are involved with the church are still human and still can make the wrong choices and sin, that is act against God's wishes. Quite appallingly so sometimes. People's own faults, weaknesses and addictions, sometimes inherited, sometimes as a result of trauma, can affect their perceptions and get in the way of them understanding God. But I believe if focus is kept on Christ, then understanding of God will grow. I worship God not because of members of the church but because I am drawn to God through Christ.

As you know I believe there are many paths - it would be truest bizarre if there was only one “right path” the access to which was basically an accident of birth, unless of course, you’re suggesting some humans are more worthy than others.

I believe this,

"6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6-7 NIV)

How that looks might vary from person to person, country to country. Jesus' name does not sound the same in every language. However, Jesus does point to one God accessed through Him. We could mull over what the essence of this is, essentially what Jesus in His entirety encompasses. However, I believe if we come across Him, as we do in the Bible and believe in Him, let Him be the focus of our lives, that is 'the way'.

I mean how that looks to an observer on the outside.

So, I’ve asked this question multiple times on this thread. No one has answered.- what do you think happens to mediums who profess to work in the name of Jesus after they die? Do they go to heaven or to hell?

@Feelingathomenow, as a Christian, I recognise as human beings we are not qualified to judge who goes to heaven and hell.

What I would say is that surrendering your voice over to spirits that are not of God (there are no guarantees at all that this is not the case with mediumship), thereby serving them, is not compatible with serving God. So it is plain to see how this would open a door to temptation beyond the more explicit warnings given in the Bible. So whilst someone may repent and be forgiven of sin, being involved in mediumship could lead the person in question away from God at the very least.

And that is the crux of it really, who is Jesus? Is he a person or a symbol for something else? Something that can be found across religions and cultures, but most importantly within? Or was he a single person, God incarnate who is the only way to God? I think the former, I’m guessing you think the latter.

The thing is once you go down the line of evil spirits acting as mimics where do you draw the line?

Maybe people get deceived by demons talking at them through burning bushes?

Maybe demons appear and take the form of dead Jewish carpenters, persuading his friends he has risen from the grave. Maybe Daniel had a demon whispering in his ear when he deciphered the writing on the wall. Maybe Mary was tempted by Satan even more than Eve and she too was punished with childbirth?

I understand your point re the access of spirits to the medium. It’s not in line with how I work. I have therefore previously specifically questioned this point. From what I’ve seen there are prayers of protection before and after and usually a spirit guide who will protect/filter.

And that is the crux of it really, who is Jesus? Is he a person or a symbol for something else? Something that can be found across religions and cultures, but most importantly within? Or was he a single person, God incarnate who is the only way to God? I think the former, I’m guessing you think the latter.

@Feelingathomenow, I believe we see Jesus depicted in the Bible. Yes, Jesus can be present and operational in a massive variety of people in a massive variety of ways. I don't focus on who or who this doesn't include. Anyone can choose to follow Jesus. I focus on Jesus as depicted in the Bible as I am drawn to Him. Other people might have very different experiences to me. However I would leave them to speak for themselves.

The thing is once you go down the line of evil spirits acting as mimics where do you draw the line?

@Feelingathomenow you don't believe demons exist? Maybe I am mistaken but iirc you previously talked about communicating with them. Maybe I am mistaking you for someone else.

But if not, how do you discern them as demons?

The thing is if you surrender a part of yourself to them, as a medium does their voice, that gives a voice to them and serves them and where does it stop? Can the medium be still in complete control?

My discernment of what is good and evil involves praying and asking God and looking at what Jesus had to say about it and how he acted.

No I believe demonic forces exist - but I think what you’re suggesting is that demons mimic a persons loved one and enter a medium, or are you saying what happens if a demon just possesses a medium - I assumed you meant the former?

No I believe demonic forces exist - but I think what you’re suggesting is that demons mimic a persons loved one and enter a medium, or are you saying what happens if a demon just possesses a medium - I assumed you meant the former?

@Feelingathomenow, either. Demons wouldn't be obliged towards the truth, would they?

That depends😀

And Saints only serve God. And why would God need a medium calling for 'Anybody?' If someone calls on God, I believe He will answer them in the fullness of time.

That depends

@Feelingathomenow, well, yes, 'Every knee will bow...' big question is are mediums allowing God to operate through them or the demon? The conflict doesn't sound at all good for the medium...

Well I guess how do you know who is listening when you pray, who answers those prayers? If your prayers are answered maybe it’s the devils work getting in the way of Gods plan. Surely an all powerful, all knowing loving god wouldn’t need worship and he would know and do what is best for us anyway. Maybe only a demon would need worship and only a demon would answer to a call to alter Gods plan. Maybe Paul was sent by Satan himself to offer humanity the fruit of the tree of knowledge and good an evil and we took that to create a religion which would cause division and destruction within the world. Maybe that knowledge was only meant for Gods chosen people - the Jews. After all it was to the Jews Jesus came.

Well I guess how do you know who is listening when you pray, who answers those prayers? If your prayers are answered maybe it’s the devils work getting in the way of Gods plan. Surely an all powerful, all knowing loving god wouldn’t need worship and he would know and do what is best for us anyway. Maybe only a demon would need worship and only a demon would answer to a call to alter Gods plan. Maybe Paul was sent by Satan himself to offer humanity the fruit of the tree of knowledge and good an evil and we took that to create a religion which would cause division and destruction within the world. Maybe that knowledge was only meant for Gods chosen people - the Jews. After all it was to the Jews Jesus came.

@Feelingathomenow, I know from my knowledge of Jesus through whom we know God. I don't ask for 'anybody there', as a mediums famously have done, when I pray. I pray to God.

Incidentally if you want to know Jesus better through prayer, you could pray this Catholic prayer, as I do pretty much everyday.

My infinite and glorious Lord, You are so far beyond our understanding and comprehension, yet You invite us to come to You so that we may know You more fully. Give me the grace I need, dear Lord, to shed the erroneous and limited images of You that I have, so as to come to know You as You are. Jesus, I trust in You.

(catholic-daily-reflections.com/2023/06/08/a-true-image-of-christ-2/)

So basically it all boils down to trust! You trust that Jesus is who he says he is, and even though we don’t understand God and can’t, He will always look out for our best interests. It all hangs on the faith God and Jesus are nothing but good.

Maybe a medium is similarly trusting the world of spirit to protect them when they pray to filter out anything that hasn’t got good intentions. When they pray to God before any work they are trusting in Him to protect them.

Seems the same thing to me. How are you drawing that line? Some people are more deserving of prayers being answered than others

So basically it all boils down to trust! You trust that Jesus is who he says he is, and even though we don’t understand God and can’t, He will always look out for our best interests. It all hangs on the faith God and Jesus are nothing but good.

@Feelingathomenow, yes, as I have said, I am Christian.

Maybe a medium is similarly trusting the world of spirit to protect them when they pray to filter out anything that hasn’t got good intentions. When they pray to God before any work they are trusting in Him to protect them.

So are they trusting in God or 'the world of spirit'? A Christian trusts in and worships the triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as the one and only God. Not 'the world of spirit'. Hence my reservations concerning 'Christian Spiritualism'.

Some people are more deserving of prayers being answered than others

@Feelingathomenow deserving? Sounds very transactional. I believe God answers prayer out of love for us. We can inhibit ourselves receiving His answer if our brains are so fully occupied with other stuff we fail to pay attention to Him and His direction.

So I asked, DO YOU THiNK some people are more deserving - I certainly don’t (nice try though). So if God loves us all he will protect us all. So mediums have Gods protection - therefore there is no risk to what they are doing. Maybe God is using those people to bring comfort to the people who seek out mediums, usually those suffering a great deal of pain through bereavement. Maybe God has given those people a special gift to bring comfort and healing to those who are bereaved - what a beautiful gift God has given the world in that case, how can that be unchristian to bring healing.

Joel 2:28 “And afterward (after the coming of the messiah)
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.

Maybe that’s exactly what God did. How terrible of us to ignore this beautiful gift given to us be God.

@Feelingathomenow, it would have been clearer that was a question if you had used a question mark (simple person here!😉).

I tend to think God's using people to prophesy comes at His will and not ours. Jesus shows is seeking prophesy out is the result of a lack of faith in God.

"38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here." (Matthew 12: 38-42 NIV)

So if prophesies come from God they come not from us seeking prophecy in and of itself but from us seeking to know Him and the rest will follow.