Christian Spiritualism

[rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo]

I’m wanting to find out more about Christian Spiritualism and was wondering if anyone might have an recommendations for resources/books/courses/groups and so on?

if the OP feels Christian Spiritualism is the path for them then they should be free to try it without condemnation

I would call it more loving guidance. @Feelingathomenow

And what does that all mean?

The Christian faith has committed a lot of atrocities under a similar claim

In a nutshell @Feelingathomenow if someone is involved in the occult, like a medium, they cannot also be in Christ. The two are at complete odds:

Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

“Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Mathew 12:22-30

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. (1 Corinthians 10:21)

Spiritualists communicate with demonic forces. They do not consult the spirits of the dead.

No, wolves in sheep's clothing doing the Devil's work have though.

In a nutshell - you clearly know nothing about esoteric practices. If you want to talk about a “house divided” I would say there is no better example than Christianity with schism after schism, it was responsible for the first genocide in Europe, numerous deaths because it could decide on the meaning of Christianity within its own church. This has continued into modern times. It’s hidden evil people within its walls and protected them from justice. If you want to see where evil resides look within the church or precinct walls. it is evil misogyny incarnate.

Most Christians follow the teachings of an agenda driven Jewish mystic initiate Paul. We know this because his writings were influenced by Cjariot mysticism (see his vision of ascending into heaven - practical carbon copy of that which is part of chariot mysticism”

As for what is and isn’t Christianity. Chiristianity has been arguing that amongst itself for centuries, frequently switching sides and killing those who didn’t agree with this months version, To follow Christ it’s best to remove oneself away from such power struggles and insecurities. After all, “the kingdom of God is within”

I doubt you know very little about Spiritualism beyond that which has been dictated by the Church in an effort to preserve its own powers.

Yes that is orthoclase Christianity. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. But don’t forget, it is all Gods creation. Genesis [1:25] God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind.

The mistake was letting Adam name them. Religion is a man made problem

I meant orthodox Christianity rather

Hi, here’s one of Angela Scafidi’s videos where she talks about mediumship. The relevant section is about an hour in, although the whole thing is really interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/live/FxVGpLfD-5Q?si=ikDMGEp4D2eC3L3b

Theres a similar and slightly shorter one with Isaiah Saldivar, which is also great if you’re interested in her story.

Yes, there are lots of internet evangelists!

This is from Reddit; does it help?
What is Prayer Book Anglicanism:
In its most basic sense, it simply means what it says. It is an Anglican who cleaves to the Prayer Book in worship and doctrine.
In contemporary reality, in the Angliphone world it tends to imply a loyalty to the "classical BCPs" against contemporary liturgical novelties,

Meaning anything 'new' or Evangelical or Charismatic will have modern music, modern worship styles and sensibilities.
This is a good thorough discussion
Anglican charismatic evangelicalism

A fascinating article about magic in Judaism and how it's still practiced today!Jews and Magic
"Moshe Idel, the preeminent scholar of Jewish mysticism, presented a picture in which magic was a central aspect of Judaism. Magic, he writes in the foreword to the 2004 edition of Joshua Trachtenberg’s Jewish Magic and Superstition: A Study in Folk Religion, “is a vital form of Jewish spirituality. [Judaism is] deeply informed by magical ways of thinking and manners of action that are conceived to be both effective and licit.”

I know enough about esoteric practices to know they don't align with Scripture.
I do know a fair bit about Spiritualism, but not from Sunday services - it's not a subject they usually spend any time explaining!

If you want to talk about a “house divided” I would say there is no better example than Christianity with schism after schism

I agree that the Catholic Church (mostly) has caused a lot of heartache over the centuries. The same can be said of other organised religions. Jesus rebuked the Jewish religious elite of the day, calling them 'blind fools', 'vipers', 'hypocrites' and 'children of hell'. I imagine He might have similar to say about aspects of the Church over the last few thousand years. The wolves in sheep's clothing is metaphorical. Jesus said,

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. Matthew 7:15-20.

Also described by Paul -

And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:12-15.

www.gotquestions.org/wolves-in-sheeps-clothing.html

Most Christians follow the teachings of an agenda driven Jewish mystic initiate Paul.

That's quite a statement - one I have yet to see backed up by facts.

To follow Christ it’s best to remove oneself away from such power struggles and insecurities.

I agree, which is why I'm mostly in favour of small house group type gatherings of believers, without a religious hierarchy calling the shots. Leadership within Baptist and Methodist churches is far closer to what would have been common in the early Church.

Yes there’s a lot of magic in Jewish mystic traditions and therefore Christianity

Sorry, I’ve managed to watch about half of that so far. It’s painful viewing. The woman clearly has some deep seated issues regarding needing approval, need to belong, need for a group. She has a lot of issues around death.

I have to say, if she presented herself in many esoteric circles (as distinct from “new age”) she would very gently be pointed in the direction of a good psychologist. She has far too many issues to find peace within any spiritual practice, in a few years she will probably turn to Islam or something. You can see that can’t you? I don’t even know where to start. She is delusional -her family are followed around by death spirits or something (because no old people die do they?) she really is a modern day version of those leper messiahs (to borrow a phrase from metallica) of the 80s- TV Evangelists. Nothing she says means anything - she just needs people liking and subscribing.

For what it’s worth I’m not a big fan of New Age as it lacks the necessary cohesive system / but fuck me- this woman needs some serious help from a qualified professional.

Matthew 7:15 et seq purposely references the garden of Eden - think it through.

I like Iron Maidens use of the phrase in their song “For the Greater Good of God”.

I’m not sure why you think calling Paul a Jewish mystic is so way out there it’s a fairly well established line of scholastic thought - eg

So if you’re in favour of individual interpretation of the Bible you must realise people interpret it in seperate ways. My great aunt was a chapel going Methodist - she seemed to see the bible more as a guide. All looked fairly mystical to me.

so which esoteric schools have you been initiated into? That is, by their nature the only way to understand them

@rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo - sorry your post got derailed. Coincidentally, Dr Justin Sledge who, I would offer is currently probably one of the most trusted academic sources on esotericism uploaded video on the history of American spiritualism. It is an academic work, rather than spiritual but gives a really good idea about how it arose and the non - conformist Christian background. It also recommends a couple of books at the end.

Take no notice of the very ardent Christian’s on this thread, we’ve had conversations before and they are very tied to conventional views of Christianity, even in the face of strong evidence to the contrary . Which is fine for them, people can believe whatever they want to or are drawn to. you don’t need to be bound by their views though, do so searching and come up with your own answers.

if you’re interested, from the video, many “alternative” spiritual practices have placed women in a position of power and independence- totally contrary to the Church which is a major reason the Church has objected. Interestingly, the church has never been so vocal about alternative methods where men predominate. See alchemy v witchcraft and how the two things were treated v differently in the 16th century.
If you’re interested in the radical nature of women within the more esoteric/occult worlds Mary Jane Greers book “The women of the Golden Dawn” is a good resource about the 19th century occult society which overtly treated men and women on an equal footing and many of its members were involved in women’s suffrage and wider rights and the Fabian Society. The gnostics, esp those traditionally referred to as the Cathars are another group who gave much more equality to women (note the Pope sanctioned a crusade which saw up to 1mill of them die in the 13th century). Traditional orthodox Christianity has cleaved to misogyny through 99.9% of its history and very much hates anything that gives women a voice and power.

@Justletmemoveon - you do realise this woman also has videos up discussing how God can cure people of “homosexuality” don’t you- just thought I’d mention it in case you hadn’t seen. I think it’s important to know this as I know no true Christian would want to be involved in this kind of demonisation of someone’s innate sexuality as that would be a pretty terrible thing.

@Feelingathomenow & @rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo

Take no notice of the very ardent Christian’s on this thread, we’ve had conversations before and they are very tied to conventional views of Christianity, even in the face of strong evidence to the contrary . Which is fine for them, people can believe whatever they want to or are drawn to. you don’t need to be bound by their views though, do so searching and come up with your own answers.

rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo was asking about 'Christian Spiritualism', so I think a conversation concerning views regarding (mainstream) Christian beliefs with regards to spiritualism is relevant to the thread and not a derailment.

I agree people can make up their own minds (actually encouraged the op to do their own research upthread). However, I thought these points particularly worth mentioning (and not glossing over) the established church's view on communicating with the dead in case the op was unaware. Is someone truly making a free decision if it is the result of misinformation, misdirection or ignorance? Telling someone to take 'no notice', as you did there @Feelingathomenow is the exact opposite of encouraging them to make their own informed decisions. The op does not need to be 'bound by' your views either!

As an aside @Feelingathomenow iirc you have said that you no longer would define yourself a Christian at all since there is too much of the Nicene and Apostles Creed you disagree with. So you seem to have made a departure in that your view of what is Christian has changed...so I would ask again how you think your views have relevance with regards to what Christianity encompasses. As far as I have gathered from our previous conversations your path of belief and religious practice is an entirely unique one - you're not a Cathar either, to my knowledge, so I would presume would disagree with their views on many things. As I recall, you adhere to Alistair Crowley's saying:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

I”m not a Thelemite either lol! (for those who don’t know the last line of @onetwothreehello”s post quotes the motto of Alastair Crowley’s quasi religious Thelema -the quote was actually taken from Rablais in his thinly veiled critique of the hypocrisy of Christianity). I do know a lot of Thelemites, generally nice open people who would always help you out.

Anyway, that’s an aside. Or maybe not! You see you can know a lot about a religion by the fruit it bears - think someone even kindly quoted the relevant passage from the bible upthread. You can also know about its view points, about its incongruencies. You can also spot people taking things out of context. You can always spot the hypocrisy. Some might argue being on the outside looking in, as long as you are equipped with sufficient knowledge you’re in a better position to give an honest picture, than someone brought into a philosophy. I don’t belief in orthodox Christianity - but I belief in most of the teachings and my experiences of Christ.

I don’t think some of the extreme views here are representative of many Christians tbh. A lot of Christian’s don’t have such strong views. Fair enough, I may be should have urged the OP to consider that the Christian views expressed here, from past experience come from some very literal Christian’s whose views do not necessarily represent a lot of Christians. It’s all a bit fire and brimstone with no room for different interpretations.

Like I say, people can believe what they like. You can believe all mediums will rot in hell together with the people who use them (which no one here has been willing to say but clearly what they think) unless they repent and turn to a specific god amongst thousands. It might be what you, as an orthodox (with a small o) Christian think, but it doesn’t mean spiritualism is incompatible with Christianity- just the interpretation you subscribe to.

I do wonder at people (who presumably admire the you tuber in question) using testimonies of people who post You tube videos about “gay conversion” with the help of Christ - I know not you- (also anti abortion propaganda) trying to use their “spiritualism is demonic” claim as an argument when that You Tuber is clearly lacking in any morals, or, indeed, self awareness. I think people posting those sorts of videos need to be very aware of the mindset of people whose arguments they are using.

But then thats organised religion for you. Paul was the original wolf in sheep’s clothing and people have been emulating him ever since.

Bought into not brought into!

@Feelingathomenow,

unless they repent and turn to a specific god amongst thousands.

And one of those gods I suppose would include you - as you have expressed before, iirc, you are a god (operating as your 'higher self') and as such do not sin or make mistakes and are in complete unity with 'The Source'. So, following that particular logic, you practising magic or communicating with the dead or negotiating with demons is perfectly right and correct as it befits your status as a god...

Queen Victoria was a devoted Spiritualist, attended seances and was the head of the Church of England; it doesn't get more Mainstream Christian than that!

Also Spiritualists were Marie and Pierre Curie, Arthur Conan Doyle, evolutionary biologist Alfred Russel Wallace, and the psychologist William James, Great minds too!

I’m not sure you have understood the concept of we are all god correctly. We can all err in our ways.

I was talking about man made external god figures.

No one becomes anything, no one’s status benefits from anything, we are all the fool in the tarot before and after the journey, it’s just we eventually recognise who we are. No one is here to be worshipped, to find “benefits” we are simply what we are - divine, there is no becoming, there is just recognition.

Interestingly the Golden Dawn counted quite a few Anglican boats amongst its membership.

I don’t think we should forget Elizabeth I and John Dee either. We could go off on a tangent about Enochian Angels.

@Feelingathomenow

I’m not sure you have understood the concept of we are all god correctly. We can all err in our ways.

I was referencing a previous conversation with you, I believe. Iirc you described how you believed you are in complete unity with 'The Source' as your 'higher self' performing your 'True Will'. You perform various rituals (which are only disclosed to initiates) in order to safeguard your self from motivations which would conflict with the 'higher self'/''True Will'.