Christian Spiritualism

[rosesaredeadvioletsaretoo]

I’m wanting to find out more about Christian Spiritualism and was wondering if anyone might have an recommendations for resources/books/courses/groups and so on?

None of which needs the orthodox Christian church though

@Feelingathomenow

"30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." (Matthew 12:30 NIV)

The gathering Jesus talks of is a bit more difficult with nobody else, no church, involved though.

Guess the question is “what does it mean to be with Jesus”?

@Feelingathomenow 'gathering' can also mean to 'gather up' as in a harvest. So not just gathering together but to work together to cause the gathering up.

@Feelingathomenow and the 'scatters' is reminiscent of the division/separation I mentioned earlier - which happens when people are not in unity.

I guess interpretations vary. I always question the motives behind variations— organised rekigion usually has non - spiritual motives

@Feelingathomenow you really have a problem with organised religion. Yes, there have been terrible crimes and atrocities committed over the years by the church. But we need to remember the church is a collection of people with all that comes with that. All can sin, that is act independently from and against God. People can collude with each other too in their endeavours. Sin can be addictive to people too:

"33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever." (John 8:33-35 NIV)

But the church is also there so followers of Jesus can experience more of Him:

"19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:19-21 KJV)

So if Jesus is the one to set us free from the slavery of sin (and we all sin) and we experience Him when we are gathered together in His name church is somewhere which will contain sinners but hopefully at some point they will receive enough of Jesus Christ to overcome their sin. He is merciful to forgive and we should. We all want to be forgiven. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to protect ourselves and others from harmful behaviours rather we need simply to have hope in God for restoration and not try to avenge other's wrongdoings.

And church can really be very simple. My own church is online. We pray for each other and there is communion, hymns, a sermon and charity outreach projects detailed which we can participate in as we decide to.

I think you’re confusing what most people define as organised religion and a collection of people. Yes I do have a problem with organised religion because its primary purpose is political and not spiritual, being political is not an issue - the lying about its purpose is. Organised religion is about power. It is therefore/ about war, misogyny and abuse.It lies and manipulates.

Im not sure why you would defend such things. If you’re seeking theTruth you have to seek, to look round every corner. The more places you look the better and fuller picture you see.

@Feelingathomenow I think if you focus on the bad/evil in things it can get to be that's all you see. If you look for the good instead, that's to be found too.

"13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13 KJV)

Why are you so eager to gloss over the underlying manipulative snd power driven nature of organised religion. Are you that desperate for others to do the thinking for you?

This is key, but OP has never been back to answer!

There are some great spiritual practices within the Christian Church. ( NOT spiritualism).

Why are you so eager to gloss over the underlying manipulative snd power driven nature of organised religion. Are you that desperate for others to do the thinking for you?

@Feelingathomenow, people being manipulative and power hungry is no surprise to me. I'm simply not shocked. I have experienced this from all walks of life. From educational professionals, to health professionals, to people within family dynamics on occasions. The list could go on. It's sort of old news.

Nobody thinks for me. Everything I hear is there for me to digest. Then anything erroneous can be let go of or most often these days mulled over to ascertain the context in which it has been said.

Which parts of the doctrines of the orthodox Christian churches do you disagree with?

I think this was covered quite early on. As the OP mentioned Christian Spiritualism specifically it’s probably fair to say they meant the practice of Christian Spiritualism.

There’s some great practices within Christian Spiritualism, there’s some terrible practices within orthodox Christianity.

I think the positions were fairly well covered earlier on the thread.

interesting that the OP hasn’t been back.

Which parts of the doctrines of the orthodox Christian churches do you disagree with?

@Feelingathomenow, I think their gatekeeping and rules around ritual and the Sacraments can be too strict sometimes that it can keep people from coming to Christ. I get why it's there though- so people take it seriously and have full understanding, however I think it can go too far and as I have said could potentially prevent people from coming to Christ. Too exclusionary. Thankfully I haven't come across that sort of problem with my church. Maybe God is the best guide in terms of finding the best church for each individual.

So do you believe in purgatory? Fo you believe the Pope is Gods representative on Earth? Do you believe in transubstantiation? Where do you stand on contraception? euthanasia? Abortion? Where do you stand on gay marriage? Where do you stand on people having full same sex relationships? Why do you believe those things?

@Feelingathomenow I am not the finished article. My beliefs are not complete. I don't have full knowledge of everything and my experiences are limited. And this thread is not about everything I believe and don't. That really would be a derailment.

I simply have reservations with regard to the Christian Spiritual church in relation to what I understand of Christianity and as such have voiced them.

Actually, it is very much about what you believe and don’t. You’re saying that Christianity is not compatible with Christianity because of your interpretation of the bible. Those things I mention are others (the orthodox view) views on what is compatible with the teachings of the bible. I’m just trying to understand if you’re looking at the bible selectively. If you think one thing (spiritualism) isn’t allowed by the bible then presumably you think other things like full same sex relationships aren’t allowed on the same basis. If you don’t think this where do you draw the line? As I said, very relevant on understanding how you have drawn your conclusions on spiritualism

Actually, it is very much about what you believe and don’t. You’re saying that Christianity is not compatible with Christianity because of your interpretation of the bible. Those things I mention are others (the orthodox view) views on what is compatible with the teachings of the bible. I’m just trying to understand if you’re looking at the bible selectively. If you think one thing (spiritualism) isn’t allowed by the bible then presumably you think other things like full same sex relationships aren’t allowed on the same basis. If you don’t think this where do you draw the line? As I said, very relevant on understanding how you have drawn your conclusions on spiritualism

@Feelingathomenow, so you think you can extrapolate from what I say about one thing in a certain context to what my whole beliefs are and how I read The Bible? You would put yourself as judge and jury?

My understanding is not complete, I have not finished my journey with Christ. I read passages of the Bible. I hear sermons. Read Bible studies and devotionals. I discuss and reflect with others, I pray and things come to light. I get deeper revelation along the away. I also have baggage as everyone does we don't always even fully know what we are carrying around with us until it is bought to light. My understanding can still be impeded by that but little by little I let go of the things I need to, receive more revelation and grow in understanding.

So do you believe the Bible is the word of God? If so, what are your views on the points I questioned earlier, same sex relationships etc. if you do believe in the Bible being the word of God you pressumsbly believe everything it says. If you don’t believe it is all the word of God, how do you decide which parts to believe and follow and which parts to set aside?

it’s a simple question which this far you don’t appear willing or able to answer?

@Feelingathomenow I know enough to know you are attempting to lead me into a double bind situation. If I say yes, then you will say I am a bigot and accuse me of all sorts of injustices. If I say no, then you will say then all sorts of communication with all sorts of spirits is just great for people's own spiritual development. So I'll leave you to decide for yourself what you think I am. I know enough to leave you reflect on our many conversations over the years under different names included.

It’s not attempting to lead you anywhere apart from the inevitable conclusion of what you’re saying. I do find it interesting though that I’ve answered all of your questions when you have attempted to do a gotcha moment with your questions to me.

There are really only two basic choices when it comes to the Bible, either you believe every word, which, as you identified, will lead you to have some seriously questionable views, or alternatively, you apply some criteria for which parts you follow and which you don’t. If you use the latter way of interpreting the bible then I just wondered what filters you use as to what you believe.

But you seem to have recognised the difficult conclusion that is inevitably reached if you either accept or reject a literal interpretation of the Bible.

So, just to conclude, I hope you’re not a bigot, so we will leave the literal interpretation of the bible, then we are left with your own interpretation of the bible which is based on some subjective criteria you aren’t willing to disclose, saying Christian Spiritualism is bad.

What I do find very peculiar is your repeated mention of prior usernames. But not as odd as the other poster who confidently stated “I too am aware of your previous work” and finished it with “I’m watching you” with some random statement about Freemasonry along the way lol!

There are really only two basic choices when it comes to the Bible, either you believe every word, which, as you identified, will lead you to have some seriously questionable views, or alternatively, you apply some criteria for which parts you follow and which you don’t. If you use the latter way of interpreting the bible then I just wondered what filters you use as to what you believe.

@Feelingathomenow, there is a third which involves a more holistic interpretation, aiming for contextual understanding, how God acts and what He says with regard to the context of what is said and done. This is not a science we cannot extrapolate or predict exactly understanding is by faith and has to come from revelation from God.

We can certainly make mistakes and miss something in our interpretation, our own biases can affect how well we can perceive what we are seeing and hearing. As such it is not for us to judge anyone else in their understanding but questions and explorative discussions can help us learn from others and look again at things we might have missed.

So no, I don't feel it appropriate to answer your questions since there are no simple answers. You talk about me attempting 'gotcha' questions and you answering so you thought you'd do the same to me? Tit for tat? Except I wasn't trying attempting a 'gotcha' just reflecting on the issues at hand. I don't want you to be 'got', I 'd prefer you to be saved from being 'got'!

What I do find very peculiar is your repeated mention of prior usernames. But not as odd as the other poster who confidently stated “I too am aware of your previous work” and finished it with “I’m watching you” with some random statement about Freemasonry along the way lol!

Simply because I have had numerous lengthy conversations with you under different user names. Some of which seemed far more enjoyable and relaxed and far less defensive and antagonistic. I can easily recognise you from what you have said and I had hoped to receive some flicker of recognition from you. Beyond all else I do care about your well-being and it saddens me to see you so apparently bitter and defensive. I apologise if my persistence has contributed to the general mood of this recent conversation. I know I am not always what people need in their lives. I hope your path leads you to greener pastures in the future.

Lol. Why do you say “Im bitter and defensive” I can assure you I am neither. I’ve been feeling very chilled and relaxed during this debate. I do sense a lot of unease from you though. Is there something bigger going on with your spirituality here?

I have simply been holding my line based on my understanding and belief system which nothing here has persuaded me to deviate from. I see now that you appear to think you have a role in “saving”me or something. You think bringing me over to your way of thinking will, what, save me from eternal damnation- why is that? What does “” caring” about me look like to you?

I do love the way you have a habit of trying to put words into my mouth, you quote one thing then add on something I haven’t said. - I wasn’t trying to do anything to you. I was asking a simple question which for some reason you can’t or won’t reply to. So even if the matter is complicated or long winded, you don’t appear to have had an issue writing long replies before. Why is this suddenly an issue?

I did say I recognised you from previous conversations, but I’m interested to know what you want me to recognise about you.

I did say I recognised you from previous conversations, but I’m interested to know what you want me to recognise about you.

@Feelingathomenow, I had regarded you as a friend with much in common albeit with some differences in opinion / beliefs and had enjoyed a large proportion of our previous conversations. I had hoped you might have recognised the same in me except I'm detecting a certain amount of indifference towards me / hostility to what I have said.

Sorry my mistake. It seems I maybe have been projecting.