Why (or why not) be Christian?

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing the "Will you make it to heaven?" threads started by @VincitVeritas which have become a more wide-ranging discussion about matters of faith, Christian belief.

Hope to see you on here when the last thread runs out of space! And new posters welcome too.

We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context.

Also some talk about whether it's accurate to say humans are 'sinful' and why/why not, some discussion of Paul and the validity of his writings and status as an apostle, how the Bible was formed (and why other writings didn't make the canon) the basis of morality/ethics, whether Jesus's message was intended for an excusively Jewish audience, the meaning of Christ (or Messiah), church tradition and different denominations, end times and probably more I've forgotten!

There you go again. I will repeat it again, I don't have auditory hallucinations.

This is simply an attempt to discredit me.

When my faith has lined up with God's will, the things I have hoped for have manifested in real life.

You believe you know your god's will. And, gasp, they happen to coincide with what you want.

I'm not going to go any further. You're obviously getting upset, and this is a general point, not specifically aimed at you, but at anyone claims to do what they do because they "understand" or "hear" or "dream" what their god wants them to do.

@HannibalHeyes

but at anyone claims to do what they do because they "understand" or "hear" or "dream" what their god wants them to do.

Which is aimed at any Christian who feels their prayers are answered! Which is pretty much all Christians. So you'll just discredit the whole lot of us.

how ?

in the sense of more spreading gods word via a number of methods but conquer may have been the wrong word to use ,

as for their creator, what if their god is different from our god ?

we do so with the understanding that He is our ruler and guide, and we are merely vessels through which His divine plan is carried out.

Ruler!

but then is that not the same for many people that bow to any god ?

Better not to bow to any god but independently think for yourself.

that to, i agree that no human should have bow to any deity (only if they want to) especially when its humans that have written all the texts

@RealRubyBe,

i agree that no human should have bow to any deity (only if they want to)

I want to. I bow to Jesus Christ by my own free will. 🙂

Exactly. And ever changing cyclical historical change, means that every couple thousands of years, another “prophet” comes along, with a new belief system, that displaces the previous belief system/s and its god/s. No truth is eternal, subjective or otherwise. We believe what we need to to get through our existence.

@Parker231

Better not to bow to any god but independently think for yourself.

You offer me a bit of a double bind situation there. If I think independently I do bow to the triune God. I do this if my own free will. If I just thought as you without engaging my own judgment I wouldn't be thinking independently (from you). Is that what you want, me to bow down to you?

I think independently using my own judgement.

But surely you can see it’s possible to both. You are intimating that people who have a belief in a divine form are incapable of independent thought. Are you somehow trying to claim atheists are in someway intellectually superior?

Welcome to the concept of true will.

“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will”

I think independently using my own judgement

@Parker231, as I have told you I do. The question is do you allow me to? As in do you recognise it possible without thinking the same as you do?

It's interesting that some scientists don't believe we are truly free. They believe we are governed by our bodily state, our genetics and the effects of our environment. These pieces of scripture seem very pertinent in light of their scientific knowledge.

"33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever." (John 8: 33-35)
"15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant." (Hebrews 9:15)

"20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!" (Romans 6:20-21)

"5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin." (Romans 6:5-7)

So basically it is saying anyone who acts against the will of God becomes a slave. The sin (things that which are not God's will) controls them, is in control of their bodies which leads to death. If we follow Christ and believe on Him with all our hearts He sets us free from this control and our old selves are changed and we receive a new inheritance.

Well most people who follow their dreams are effectively doing this. “All that we see or seem is, but a dream within a dream”

We need something bigger than ourselves otherwise our lives are just one nihilistic mess.

Obviously you can do as you want - but why do you need a god to set you free

Obviously you can do as you want - but why do you need a god to set you free

@Parker231, because otherwise I felt like a slave to, under the control of, all that was wrong in the world, every injustice. My Christian faith feels very freeing and me and my loved ones are thriving against the (statistical in our own situation) odds.

@Parker231 if you have read my posts on the preceding thread (I think you were on there) you will know some of my background. 😉

The sin (things that which are not God's will) controls them, is in control of their bodies which leads to death. If we follow Christ and believe on Him with all our hearts He sets us free from this control and our old selves are changed and we receive a new inheritance.

What does this actually mean (in simpler terms)?

Who is controlling us in your view?

We need something bigger than ourselves otherwise our lives are just one nihilistic mess.

What? What does this actually mean? I honestly do not understand..?

@Lalupalina,

Who is controlling us in your view?

Well, what is the force which works against God? Against good? But put simply any deception, any piece of wrong thinking, any destructive force, any genetic fault or flaw us, any kind of unjust situation, any addiction, of our own or originating from other people, has the potential to make us feel trapped, control us. None of us, not one of us, is completely immune to these hazards but we can avoid being totally trapped and completely overcome by them by choosing what is right, God in Christ.

@Lalupalina in other words you can be a total victim of / a slave to your environment and genetics or you can rise above them and do what is good despite your situation.

Well we all are driven by a belief that something is bigger than just us. That could be family, society, the planet, religion, gods, our higher self,

What drives you on day after day? Why do you make the decisions you make? What stops you acting just according to your selfish needs?

I think my point was very similar to @heyhohello