Why (or why not) be Christian?

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing the "Will you make it to heaven?" threads started by @VincitVeritas which have become a more wide-ranging discussion about matters of faith, Christian belief.

Hope to see you on here when the last thread runs out of space! And new posters welcome too.

We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context.

Also some talk about whether it's accurate to say humans are 'sinful' and why/why not, some discussion of Paul and the validity of his writings and status as an apostle, how the Bible was formed (and why other writings didn't make the canon) the basis of morality/ethics, whether Jesus's message was intended for an excusively Jewish audience, the meaning of Christ (or Messiah), church tradition and different denominations, end times and probably more I've forgotten!

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."
Hebrews 1:1-2

Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?

Planet earth just happens to the right distance from the Sun, so it is protected from harmful solar radiation by its magnetic field, it is kept warm by an insulating atmosphere, and it has the right chemical ingredients for life, including water and carbon. The processes that shape the Earth and its environment constantly cycle elements through the planet. This cycling sustains life and leads to the formation of the mineral and energy resources. THAT is why life began to evolve on this planet

There are very likely many more planets in other solar systems where life has evolved.

Living organisms are very opportunistic!

@Mustardseed86 You keep quoting the Bible, which to me is simply not an accurate historical account.

It's all the vast number of "just happens" that point towards a creator, in my opinion.

I've quoted it a couple of times. You asked a question about God on a thread about Christianity, you can't be surprised that I find wisdom and help in the Bible.

That all sounds wonderful and comforting for you. However, I cannot help and wonder whether the dreams and the offers of help would not have happened regardless??

@Lalupalina, these are dreams full of Biblical symbolism and some where Jesus has spoken to me. With the Biblical symbolism if I had not been conversant in it from reading the symbolism in Bible it might have not pointed me towards anything relevant. If I did not know who Jesus was at all, potentially I might not have recognised Him. The offers of help, who knows? But it was immediately on praying and I was very thankful for it.

I also find it a very convoluted way of communicating with someone - why would. God not have created easier channels of communication? Again, it sounds to me like wishful thinking

I think it's because faith is important. And why? I think because it's a better way to achieve unity than simply ordering someone around and them obeying without understanding. Requiring faith gets them to engage and begin to think and feel in a particular way, essentially develop more understanding. Faith helps bring about unity.

What are your thoughts on the theory of evolution?

Can’t you see though that your views are predicated on a belief system of your own? You say Earth just so happens to be the right distance from the sun that life can thrive. But why?

Why does life thrive in these circumstances?

Where do the rules of the universe come from? Who says there are similar Goldilocks planets?

You’re not delving deep enough, you’re stopping at a superficial level when you get an answer you want. Why is that?

Faith as a better way to achieve unity? As an atheist I don’t order anyone around or expect them to obey without understanding - that’s a common curtesy and not a characteristic anymore attributed to those with faith or without.

Faith as a better way to achieve unity? As an atheist I don’t order anyone around or expect them to obey without understanding - that’s a common curtesy and not a characteristic anymore attributed to those with faith or without.

@Parker231, I'm talking about unity with God! So God requires faith and I think faith achieves better unity than ordering about or spoon feeding knowledge for example. It achieves better understanding.

It's akin to people that are teaching asking students to propose and try out solutions themselves instead of spoon feeding them solutions or ordering them to take a number of steps in order to achieve the solution.

So yes, we can replicate this methodology as human beings and as such atheists can too.

@Parker231 so if people utilise a student's 'faith' (in terms of testing their developing understanding) in teaching why would an atheist expect God not to utilise people's faith in order to achieve better unity with Him?

But any half decent teacher would then demonstrate why what they are teaching works, not just say "believe it out of faith because I say so!"

I HRTFT but I think that this is too broad an area for discussion.

"We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context."

I'm not sure what is meant by 'reliable evidence', as IMO most is subjective.

"Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?"

It's the other way round. Our particular type of carbon based life was tailor made by our universe.

But any half decent teacher would then demonstrate why what they are teaching works, not just say "believe it out of faith because I say so!"

@HannibalHeyes, He does in my experience. When my faith has lined up with God's will, the things I have hoped for have manifested in real life.

@CurlewKate

Our particular type of carbon based life was tailor made by our universe.

So you see the universe as Creator?

I feel I should repost this quote;

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

I feel I should repost this quote;

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

@HannibalHeyes, I believe God is good, I believe He is love. So are you telling me you distrust me when I desire what is good and act in a loving way towards other people? When I do what I think is right and good?

If so, the you'll just have to distrust me because I am not going to give up on my desire to do what is right and good and loving.

It's the way you believe that you want what your god wants. People who hear gods in their heads and then act on those voices don't alway end up doing things that the rest of us would consider "good"...

@HannibalHeyes,

People who hear gods in their heads and then act on those voices don't alway end up doing things that the rest of us would consider "good"...

Stop attempting to correlate Christianity with being mentally ill. I don't have hallucinations, auditory or otherwise. I have clearly explained how I feel connected to God. Dreams aren't hallucinations, neither is remembering relevant scripture, neither is coming across relevant scripture in my readings or at church services.

Atheists are equally as capable not of doing things the 'rest of us' would consider good either.

Fact is you disagree on principle with my perspective. So much so you seek to discredit me at every step of the way regardless.

I am a follower of Jesus. I met God many times in dreams and visions and this with Bible verses I never knew until I googled them. I do not need anyone telling me anything more or less. I will join Jesus one day and this is this.

Atheists are perfectly capable of doing bad things. However, they don't get to justify it to themselves by saying "God told me to". You can believe that you are hearing a god talking to you, but just because you think you are doing good things as a result, it doesn't mean that everyone else does. You may be doing "good" things, but if you need a god to tell you to do good things, that doesn't really reflect well on you.

@HannibalHeyes what you think is not a concern. People pleasing is not my top priority. I don't think it is right to do things that I feel are wrong for popularity.

@HannibalHeyes and I say this whilst hating conflict. Thankfully people in real life don't tend to be so openly prejudiced against the Christian faith in this country.

It's nothing against "Christian faith", but I worry about people who claim they hear gods telling them what to do. Because that has had a few, shall we say, undesirable outcomes...