Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

Yes and that is open to us all.

Because Jesus was a man. Not a spirit. We can see examples in other men (in women here) that we can model ourselves on but that’s different.

I have my conception of my spirit guide” and that will never be another person

@Kdtym10 what is Jesus Christ now though? After His crucifixion?

Yes and that is open to us all.

@Kdtym10 but Jesus Christ has achieved this, so currently is God. They are the same. In this life we are not (yet) in full unity. So it makes sense to be lead by Jesus Christ as He is the same as God. 🙂

And Jesus not only currently the same as God but eternally the same as Him. As God is eternal. 😃

Well, if hes in unity with God he no longer exists as anything separate from God but then I believe we are all emanations of God do the separateness is an illusion in a way. But Jesus is only the same as any other man (or woman - just so Stan’s happy)

Same as everyone and indeed everything

So why are you not Jewish?

Asked and answered previously. If you've read the New Testament then you know all this.

Nearly all of those others listed also had followers who also believed they were following the true Messiah.

Again, this is nothing to do with 'Christ consciousness'.

The success of the Jesus cults (or some of them many fell by the wayside) was purely an accident of history.

In your opinion.

I’m not “twisting” anything. I am stating literally what the word means.

Sure. King Charles was anointed during his coronation. We don't call him Christ (or Messiah) though, because that word means something else.

I am pointing out that Jesus was one of many Jews who have either claimed to be the messiah or whose followers have claimed they were the Messiah,

Yes, and this is not at all the point I was making.

Just because Christians have claimed the title for Yeshua Ben Josef doesn’t exclude anyone else using it. It’s not trade marked (if it was Yeshua Ben Josefs followers would have been too late).

But again, this is not the point. You are misusing the term. 'True Will' is about following self, not God. It certainly doesn't make you a saviour of your people. Do you have followers claiming you are the Messiah?

Same as everyone and indeed everything

@Kdtym10, including Paul the apostle? Perhaps you need to start thinking about what he said more seriously...😉

Matthew 5:17
“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” - so again I ask - why are you not Jewish - Jesus made it clear he wasn’t there for Gentiles.

So why don’t you believe any of the other people claiming to be the Messiah, were the Messiah?

The reasons behind the success of the Jesus cults over other cults is not just my opinion - it is the well documented and researched analyses of many historians. Your view contrary to this is indeed just your opinion.

Well I’m sure Charles has some great esoteric leanings - he did, after all view Kathleen Raine as a mentor, so he would get the idea of his own Christ status In sure. Why do we not call him Christ? Because people don’t understand what it means, because he has been anointed with oil by a man not God. It seems strange you can’t understand the difference

so what point were you making about the messiah?

I never claimed to be a saviour of people - this isn’t what Christ means.

True will is about following self (technically your higher self) not god ? - what makes you think there’s any difference?

Oh I do think very carefully. Some people don’t follow their True Will- that’s why we have reincarnation - to have another go😀. You will note I use the word potential a lot.

@Kdtym10 I believe the difference between Jesus Christ and other people seeking unity with God during this life is that Jesus even as the man did not sin. He had complete unity with God whilst here on earth. Jesus Christ was fully the same as God, here on earth.

Ordinary people, even when seeking unity with God do sin. We are not yet perfected. Our connection with God through Christ develops as we come to know Him better and we train (for want of a better word) ourselves to overcome our fleshly sinful/incorrect (often programmed into us over generations) impulses that are not in harmony with God.

@Kdtym10

Oh I do think very carefully. Some people don’t follow their True Will- that’s why we have reincarnation - to have another go😀. You will note I use the word potential a lot.

So you'll need several lifetimes to fully appreciate what Paul said? Wouldn't it be more fruitful to get to grips with it in this lifetime?

As an aside I once read a novel about reincarnation. In it the spirit that kept on being reincarnated. Except it was more akin to possession. Then that spirit fell in love. Forget how it ended.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferney-beautifully-written-time-slip-novel-ebook/dp/B00SDMGXBC/ref=sr111?crid=3OMHEQAFLCHO9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.TaV5ik5FHPgIMTERZ97LWwe-9ws79FvHTBVcYItBxcsj6vZkwiwyd7eRL7bkKjxDxtepSSiiTFQ8rpAizdiuwTitjVBNy1xtr9Ei4e-LeRuS4TZM5C95VPswhM7-pU6koShGW9FCjiHPit5f6pASLLDAk7VCAuLY3yDOXntE7o6hcd09oD8pd-OrkfF0HqAY7j8ZSe1rfRYv7q9ppLK2uTS0x6at02-lbarkRvyJU.S-zv5V0iMJCd8lgWEVJOEwbsu0iBNlBh7iceI71MJc&dibbtag=se&keywords=Ferney+book&qid=1709018723&sprefix=feeney+book%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-1

Sequel:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lives-She-Left-Behind-beautifully-ebook/dp/B00SDMGX9O/ref=readscwrtbarrdsccll11/261-7501088-8480107?pddrdw=Yd46V&content-id=amzn1.sym.6a0888cd-e8d4-49aa-9f9e-4a6c01dbf0a9&pffrdp=6a0888cd-e8d4-49aa-9f9e-4a6c01dbf0a9&pffrdr=WH9HP69ZWT0C1TX7WFQ2&pddrdwg=ucTzy&pddrdr=d5a0b113-7f66-4fb5-a891-4f0b69c691f3&pddrd_i=B00SDMGX9O&psc=1

I can't think of anything worse or more utterly terrible than living in some shape and form forever, I very much hope it's like my memories from the countless billions of years before I was born, absolutely nothing, none existence bliss.

Nah, it’s clear what Paul was saying and why, it’s clear he was just a bloke (potentially with some mental health issues) regurgitating a lot of Hellenistic thought. He probably had quite a bit in common with Doreen Virtue, victim of his own fear and narcissistic tendencies. If more people realised this then millions of lives would have been saved over the last couple of millennia.

Thanks for sharing the link to the books - it seems that this is time slip
fiction rather than reincarnation from the description though.

I’ve had some interesting experiences with past life regression- have you tried it?

I've read both the books, @Kdtym10. Maybe I've given too much away but it is about reincarnation/possession. It's how you get the 'time slip'. They're good books though.

I’ve had some interesting experiences with past life regression- have you tried it?

@Kdtym10, I can believe it. But no, it's not for me. I've enough to deal with in this lifetime. The past life concept is interesting though.s perhaps it speaks of the genetic memory/inheritance that passes through the generations in us. What remains and what needs to be let go of / lost. In terms of New Testament thinking, as Christians we can have the inheritance of Jesus Christ and lose the rest. 😉

Yes it’s interesting to consider what is actually being reincarnated - esp if you consider time might not be linear.

This is an interesting and very brief overview on early Christianity and reincarnation

This is an interesting and very brief overview on early Christianity and reincarnation

@Kdtym10, yes, as I said earlier, as Christians we can have the inheritance of Christ, be redeemed through Him. And then the 'need' for reincarnation is lost.

I was thinking of these themes, as I read those novels, I linked to, number of years ago.

Interestingly, possession / possessive reincarnation can be an interesting trope for horror fiction. Similar to the vampire idea, except there the vampire requires innocent blood as a restorative life force to keep the undead alive and the in the former an 'unclean' spirit requires an innocent body to possess.

Yes, biblical themes too can make some quite horrifying themes. I mean I can remember being traumatised by the film the 10 commandments as a child. That dark mist creeping around Egypt killing babies and Moses watching as 1000s died. Horrific😀

@Kdtym10 It makes sense really. Horror does tap into common fears and weaknesses that we have as human beings. Fears and weaknesses which are as old as history.

Yes. Most mythologies and religions have fear as a central theme. I seem to recall although could be mistaken snd mixing it up with something else that the Sufis see fear as the veil between man and God that needs to be swept away in order to reach unity.

It’s one of the reasons people like Doreen virtue irk me so. Everything is based on fear which causes separation not unity. Although I think she is only reflecting her own fears

I guess it feeds through into many modern stories about facing your fears, your arch enemies, whether that be vodemort, satan set, ghosts in the sixth sense. Only then will you find freedom and truth usually with an element of sacrifice thrown in the mix

"7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy: 7)

@Kdtym10 regarding fear the above scripture is worth remembering. (With regards to Paul not all scholars think he wrote it😉)

It’s one of the reasons people like Doreen virtue irk me so. Everything is based on fear which causes separation not unity. Although I think she is only reflecting her own fears

I saw her advice as reflective of the ways she personally avoids being tempted back or tempting others into her old lifestyle which she had rejected when she became a Christian. With some of the things, such as trumpet sleeves, I think you would really have had to had her own previous beliefs / move in those circles in order to be remotely tempted. For most they are a common feature of fashion worn across people of all faiths and none.