Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

@Br0kenbutterflymagnum I'd be interested to find out! 😁

@Br0kenbutterflymagnum but yes, maybe I shouldn't have used the chat bot. But essentially it's just group think and I thought it expressed the phenomena with language I was referring to well. It's a short cut.

I think it was @VincitVeritas1 who was saying we have something much better than scripture. I agree words are important. In the Christian cosmology God spoke the world into being after all.

@Kdtym10 oh...I was attempting to answer your question,

Well if we have something “far better than the written word” why bother with scripture?

And the 'something far better' I believe referred to the Spirit. I don't think you can divorce the Spirit from The Bible, as a Christian. So in a way The Bible is "something far better than the written word" as it contains the Spirit.

But then from your perspective....would you just be perceiving spirit? As we are 'gods'? So then you consider other works in a similar fashion...

It's the God, god distinction again, isn't it?

would you just be perceiving spirit? As we are 'gods'? So then you consider other works in a similar fashion...

@Kdtym10, don't answer that...! Just something for you to think about.

i don’t think you can divorcé spirit from the bible either, hence my question to the PP.

For me Spirit is the sister of Jesus. Jesus being the merging of God with man, the point of connection between the sublime and mundane- the poets imagination. Spirit is the means by which that imagination (that divine spark) can be communicated to man. So yes the Bible is spirit. But to answer you question (which I’ve previously considered so no need to really think about it) I see these forces playing out in many works of creation, both written in other holy books, in prophecies and poems (to name some), in art, in philosophies, in actions.

The Holy Spirit gave the disciples the gift of tongues. To me that means the Holy Spirit has the power to communicate the Word in infinite ways, not just through the bible. But each source (including the bible) must be carefully studied to understand the context in which it was created. To understand the culture, the language and influences through which the message was filtered.

How can the Holy Spirit communicate to the World - the majority don’t believe it exists?

@Kdtym10 ah, I understand you, I think. But do you see the fullness of God in Jesus? In The Bible? Coming through in spite of 'the culture, the language and influences through which the message was filtered.'?

@Parker231 spirits can manifest into physical matter. However, there needs to be some element belief there in order to perceive this. Because we are then observing changes in physical matter. Phenomena can simply be described as 'spontaneous' and alternative explanations are sought in the hope that they are discovered.

Has anything ever surprised you so much you disregard what you previously held to be true?

The observer, I think, needs to be comfortable enough with the cognitive dissonance caused by new information which conflicts with previously held views and mindsets in order to grow in spiritual understanding.

Do you believe in imagination of the poetic kind , in creativity?

I see The divine in everything

Have a good imagination but has nothing to do with religion.

Kathleen Raine has a wonderful theory re Neoplatonism. It’s like a river of symbols that runs throughout history, mostly occulted, but it springs forth every now and then, it is a river that probably found its source at the beginning of time.

Each time it springs forth the symbols are put into different stories but the meaning of the symbols remains the same. Sometimes the words snd culture which make up the story can onscure the true meaning of the symbols. But deep down we know what they mean.

Jung used this idea with the Collective unconscious

@Kdtym10 so yes, then? You do see the fullness of God in Jesus. You do see the fullness of God in the Bible.

Can you expand on precisely what you mean with that?

Fullness as in,

"...the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Rev 22:13)

The observer, I think, needs to be comfortable enough with the cognitive dissonance caused by new information which conflicts with previously held views and mindsets in order to grow in spiritual understanding.

Most people change their views/mindsets when they discover new information. That's how people learn!

I would also believe in God if there was clear and concrete evidence of his existence. Of course I'd change my mind then.

Well if we look at that phrase slightly differently -if we take it to reference the Hebrew Ehyeh aleph tav it takes on something very different. The aleph tav points to the “I am” Jesus was saying I am Yahweh - it references Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh I am that I am - also I will be what I will be. The once and future king 😉.

It’s also a clever juxtaposition - the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - the beginning and the end of what??

thinking about it the use of letters as a name also adds credence to using gematria to decode 666/616.

Revelations is quite clever really. Multiple layers to unravel.

Sorry - should add, those were my rambled ponderings on a Tuesday afternoon- would need to consider this more.

But I think you’re saying, does the Bible tell us everything we need to know about God. I would say yes and no!

@Kdtym10, ah, this scripture seems apt:

"12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
(1 Corinthians 13:12)

@sunflowerpinks

Most people change their views/mindsets when they discover new information. That's how people learn!

I would also believe in God if there was clear and concrete evidence of his existence. Of course I'd change my mind then.

I'm talking about being comfortable with cognitive dissonance for long enough for the evidence to come to light..and for the complete and full evidence a lifetime.

So I have to wait to the end of my life before I get to see any evidence of God's existence?

Why would he make people wait so long?

@sunflowerpinks, no. Only if you don't perceive evidence from any of the raw data in this life.

Do you want any evidence? I don’t as there isn’t any scientific proof or likelihood of an explanation or existence.

My mantra is live life to the fullest and be happy!

Do you want any evidence? I don’t as there isn’t any scientific proof or likelihood of an explanation or existence.

@Parker231,ah. It is difficult to see evidence if you refuse to look at it.