Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

But some emanations are so far away from God they hit the darkness and it’s often beneficial to shine the light into the darkness.

@Kdtym10, you said this (above) earlier. Why do you think the darkness is there? If you don't consider it providing contrast highlighting that which is separated (at least in part) from the light of God? Because if you think there is no duality then there is no separation and everything is illuminated by God's light and is as one.

Could it be that the dark doesn't necessarily go all the way round and is actually connected at some point? But not necessarily connected at all points. We would only assume complete separation when we cannot view everything in the whole? However if what is connected is just hanging on by a very fine thread it might be in danger of breaking off as God moves about....And it also would sway about a lot as God moves! However, it could also reach out towards the darkness. If something was connected at all points it would be close to the very heart of God and then be indistinguishable from Him!

I understand the harmony and disharmony point. I’d say it’s Will which is not separate from Gods will. I would call it more alignment though rather than harmony and disharmony. A shadow is an illusion

Look at it like a candle flame. The closer to the centre it is the brighter, the further away, the darker. There’s not a sudden stop where the candle light finishes.

Look at it like a candle flame. The closer to the centre it is the brighter, the further away, the darker. There’s not a sudden stop where the candle light finishes.

@Kdtym10
Indeed!

Also if a person is used to very dim light they become accustomed to that and can start to discern what is there albeit not as well as the illumination brighter light would offer.

However, if a person becomes very accustomed to dim light a sudden illumination of very bright light would at least temporarily blind them.

So the point I made concerning those hanging onto God's light by (or through) a very fine thread reaching the darker outer edges could be useful in terms of getting those more accustomed to relative darkness more accustomed to the light in a gentler fashion than sudden bright illumination. It would also be less likely to cast them into shadow (which is a patch of absence of light but doesn't usually completely envelop an object permanently).

A shadow is an illusion

@Kdtym10

I wouldn't say it is an illusion rather it doesn't necessarily wholly envelop something permanently. But something in a lightproof locked box wouldn't receive any light unless the box was unlocked or broken.

However, if a person becomes very accustomed to dim light a sudden illumination of very bright light would at least temporarily blind them.

@Kdtym10

Which is interesting when you think about what happened to Paul! 😉

But if you can’t see it you’ve no idea what’s going on in there.

Well yes, the metaphorical blindness taking 3 days to transform into enlightenment is a tried and tested formula😀

But that doesn’t mean there is a separation.

@Kdtym10,

But if you can’t see it you’ve no idea what’s going on in there.

Indeed, herein lies a mystery.

Well yes, the metaphorical blindness taking 3 days to transform into enlightenment is a tried and tested formula😀

Yes, there are definitely recognisable themes there and in life. 😁

But that doesn’t mean there is a separation.

No, but it might appear as (be experienced as temporary) separation.

Yes I have no argument against the illusion of separation. Unfortunately many people operate as though that separation is real and permanent

Unfortunately many people operate as though that separation is real and permanent

Kdtym10, I'm not sure on the potentiality for permanent separation. I really hope for separation not being permanent for anyone. And we could never know until we witnessed it. However, being open to the potentiality of this is not necessarily bad. It can encourage self reflection rather than acting emotionally in haste. It can lead people to be brave enough to make a positive change rather than bury their head in the sand and remain in complacency.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who regard love as an action (to love someone) rather than as a noun (love is god?) are necessarily in favour of hatred??

I honestly don't understand your reasoning

Yes I can see the positive side of an illusion of separation for some. I guess in a world of illusion it is for all intents and purposes real.

But I think the realisation that the separate state is an illusion of this world can be incredibly powerful on one’s spiritual journey. But you have to be in the right place for this enlightenment

@sunflowerpinks, woah, that was way back in the thread! I'd have to search back through a lots of posts to find the context where I asked that question. But needless to say it is a question, not an accusation or a suggestion. I can misconstrue things, I am human and sometimes I ask questions in order to clarify my understanding of what another poster means.

@heyhohello you stated that after saying you wanted 'unity with God'.

I'm curious what that actually means? How does it manifest its and where does love come in?

Itself

What would light:dark:shadows have to with religion?

@Kdtym10

But I think the realisation that the separate state is an illusion of this world can be incredibly powerful on one’s spiritual journey. But you have to be in the right place for this enlightenment

Indeed, since the danger is a person might think nothing in this life matters at all. With the path analogy, a person might think it's perfectly ok just spend time rampaging around everywhere bumping into others and potentially causing harm. It's why I claim 'in Christ' to be my 'safe space' and if you believe 'all paths are equally valid' that should be fine...

@sunflowerpinks, I believe God is love so that is what I feel manifest in me in moving towards perfect unity with God. It leads me to love people, care deeply about them and their wellbeing.

What would light:dark:shadows have to with religion?

@Parker231, plenty of symbolism regarding light, dark and shadows in religion.

@heyhohello

I believe God is love so that is what I feel manifest in me in moving towards perfect unity with God. It leads me to love people, care deeply about them and their wellbeing.

you don’t need to be religious to love people, care deeply about them and their wellbeing. It’s a normal healthy characteristic.

@Parker231 well, it helps me to love people better. 🙂

This is an interesting thread, I shall come back to read more responses when I have more time. I won't get into heaven I don't think as I'm not sure there is one, but then I'm not 100% there isn't either. I would like to be religious, purely for the comfort it must bring but I find it very hard to believe this one god is the correct and only god and everyone else who believes in other gods must be wrong. It just seems ridiculously self assured and supremist. Religion seems a very convenient way of making ourselves better, controlling the masses and reinforcing social narratives that fit well with western civilisation whilst making everyone else "other". Doesn't help that I saw my parents join a ridiculous church where people used to dance around singing in tongues which was so obviously fake. So I can't feel comfortable with religion. But 100% doesn't stop me sending a quick prayer in a scary situation or wishing maybe my dead loved ones might be somewhere better now.

But this isn’t anything to do with being religious? You could be equally loving without following a religion. Why would it help you?

Absolutely. I think it’s a very valid point about this material World being important. I do see this quite a lot in spirituality, trying to escape the material world - it’s important to build a solid foundation for your spirits journey. In my world, this would be called Malkuth a Jewish mystic concept at the base of the tree of life. Christian’s have a story about building on rock not on sand etc.

Theres a great quote from Blake (sorry) “without man, nature is barren” I saw someone arguing today that the reverse was also true, without nature msn in barren. I guess those two things are interlinked, a reflection of each other both equally true.

I believe God is love so that is what I feel manifest in me in moving towards perfect unity with God. It leads me to love people, care deeply about them and their wellbeing.

I'm genuinely intrigued and curious about this comment.

Do you honestly think that parents love their children any less if they don't believe in god?

I'd like to understand your views on this!