Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

What is the issue you have with learning? you seem to have a very large bee in your bonnet about it.

Evaluating historical sources requires a scholarly approach. Would you suggest someone looks at other historical records in the sane way? Would you like discussions around world war 2 to be “oh Hitler was a nasty chap wasn’t he” or would you like knowledgeable historians to review all the relevant records, look at the culture, the economic situation etc etc to give an
accurate picture.

I think you need to question exactly what your own agenda is here.

Why would I give up all personal wealth?

What is the issue you have with learning? you seem to have a very large bee in your bonnet about it.

See my last post quoted above. It's just I don't rate learning and scholarship over everything else or over personal revelation. Not that scholarship has no value just it's not everything. Unscholarly people can be surprisingly (to some) wise.

I don’t “argue” it’s necessary to understand the Bible, it is necessary to fully understand it. I came from an extremely poor background. I grew up in an overcrowded house, my secondary school was very rough. By the 4th year we have 6 people in a young offenders institute from one subject class alone. The level of poverty in our school was overwhelming.

if you want something you work for it. Maybe the best way to help those people is to help raise their educational standards.

But again you’re missing the point. Maybe the Bible isn’t the most suitable way to find god in those circumstances. They certainly weren’t the intended audience.

@Kdtym10

Why would I give up all personal wealth?

You might according to the scholarly interpretation you gave of the 'eye of the needle' account.

Yea they can, I have never argued differently. But I give up, you’re just not interested in reading or understanding anything. You clearly have a massive issue regarding this(for whatever reason) and it’s obvious that you don’t understand the distinction I’m making. You just keep saying the same thing over and over. It’s pointless.

Yea if I was living my life according to the cannon. But I am not.

if you want something you work for it.

@Kdtym10, so you work your way to God/The Divine? You earn it through hard work. Isn't that rather transactional? More about a reward for self effort than seeking God.

Is it God you want unity with or are you competing against Him?

Yea if I was living my life according to the cannon. But I am not.

@Kdtym10, did you see the interpretation I gave upthread? Can't guarantee it's scholarly though...

@Kdtym10, here it is. Quoted above.

So this is what I take from that account.

So it's not that I don't value learning but academic pride is still pride. And worth warning against especially when interpretations vary and revelation can come from methods other than scholarly interpretation.

And….? Quite frankly it’s hard to follow your various posts most of them are just rants because people aren’t following your views.

But stating the correct position from an historical perspective isn’t “academic pride”. I’m afraid you’re grasping at straws trying to make the bible fit your world view which is exactly my point!

was Jesus guilty of “academic pride” when he started to correct the priests? Maybe Jesus is burning on hell as we speak!

I believe the two are interconnected and both necessary but one doesn’t necessarily lead to the other but can engage each other

But stating the correct position from an historical perspective isn’t “academic pride”. I’m afraid you’re grasping at straws trying to make the bible fit your world view which is exactly my point!

@Kdtym10

Is it a world view that God's grace is a gift and not earned? If so then I am guilty of pride. Pride or faith? Now that's a question..who do you thank for academic achievement, yourself or God? Maybe that answers the question.

was Jesus guilty of “academic pride” when he started to correct the priests? Maybe Jesus is burning on hell as we speak!

What basis did He have for correcting them? Learning or complete unity with God His Father? I would say the latter so it wasn't academic pride.

I believe the two are interconnected and both necessary but one doesn’t necessarily lead to the other but can engage each other

@Kdtym10 and what is the basis for this belief?

I wouldn’t distinguish myself snd God so it’s a moot point!

it was clearly academic learning

Numerous factors

I'm of the opinion that God, by definition, is good. If God is good, then s/he can't behave worse than human beings, so fears about a terrifying unjust God aren't justified... and all the imagery of hell and heaven is a way of trying to explain the pain of not being with God and the joy of being with God. I don't in other words believe that anyone who wants love and joy is denied it. I don't believe people in heaven would rejoice in people being in hell. I'm kind of the opinion of Julian of Norwich who thought that hell had to exist as an option (you had to have freedom to reject God) but that it might be utterly empty. I believe that if people really understood the evil they did they would repent of it, and rejoice in the good they did, and I think that's sort of what heaven and hell is. I've been in a situation where I've done something wrong and felt awful and despairing about it, and that's hell. I've been forgiven and that's heaven.

@Kdtym10

it was clearly academic learning

What do you make of this piece of scripture then?

"14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:14-16)

I wouldn’t distinguish myself snd God so it’s a moot point!

@Kdtym10 and I believe I can be in unity with God but it is possible for me also to act apart from Him/not in unity with His will (which is sin) as I have free will and old habits / ways of being need to be changed. I am not yet perfect, not perfect and can make mistakes. I don't have all knowledge apart from being in unity with God.

Are you saying you have complete unity with God? As in now? Do not sin / make mistakes and have all knowledge? Are perfect?

That he was speaking of gods doctrine?

What does perfection mean? What is sin?

Im more of an emanationist. So believe everything is an emanation of God

Sins don’t exist - it’s a threat that religion holds over people - similar threat as to you’ll go to hell

Im more of an emanationist. So believe everything is an emanation of God

@Kdtym10, including this conversation? So what have you learnt from it?