Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

I believe in a “god” which is the source of everything including those things you mention

The way I see it is that religion has caused so much harm and destruction across the world, why would anyone want it in their life?

I am definitely not any kind of god. Just another fallible human muddling through life guided by a moral compass that actually works quite well.

I fully accept that my belief that there is no God is just that - a belief. I can't prove anything. But neither can those who believe. And that's OK.

I fully accept that my belief that there is no God is just that - a belief.

I don't see it as a 'belief in no gods'.

I see it as the absence of belief in a god.

Well, it is my belief that there are no gods. None, of any description. So it's both. The point is that I can't prove I'm right.

Another of my theories - if there was a god, any god, we would know about it. But has no one has evidence of any, I’m 100% happy to accept there aren’t any.

I agree - if there was one or more gods, why don't we know? Why are they acting so secretly? If all the bibles were destroyed in a natural disaster, how would people ever even know that these gods are supposed to exist?

Taking 'There is no god' as the H0 and testing it sounds like a decent approach to me.

My message to anyone not capable of independently interpreting the bible is probably to think what it means to them but realise that’s a personal interpretation and might not be what was meant by the person writing it.

@Kdtym10, I'm confused. What is the difference between independent interpretation and personal interpretation? I do understand the importance of humility! though. However where does humility sit with you in terms of 'independent interpretation' / 'personal interpretation'?

But as soon as you try and tell others what something means, you need to be able to justify it in some way, that is where the intellect and scholarship comes in

So what would you made of Jesus? Say, if you had been a Pharisee or a Scribe or a Sadducee?

23 Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?” (Matthew 21:23)

As I have said, in my earlier posts, intellect and scholarship is certainly not without value. However, they can also mislead and people can also be mislead no matter how clever or well studied they are. And what is so offensive about acknowledging this?

I have mentioned also that my religious background is one of several different competing influences. How do you think I reconcile these? All can be equally convincing on paper. All have rich traditions. The people involved are all people which I love.

The scriptures I quoted earlier in response to this question (regarding reconciling different opinions) give an indication of my Faith. And yes, some things still do remain mysterious to me which I acknowledge also.

The difference, for me between personal and independent interpretation is the difference between acting on personal feelings and undertaking independent research into it.

interesting you mention humility. This is basically the opposite of ego. Each has their place, but conversely each can be harmful. It is about appropriateness of use. What I do notice is that people are often acting somewhat hypocritically. People use the idea of being humble as a way of trying to show their superiority. Where there is some kind of situation where people are spreading information you know to be incorrect or very questionable what is the purpose of being humble? You’re allowing falsehoods to be spread, you’re perpetuating lies through silence. What is moral about that. There are always two sides. “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves” (Matthew 7:15).

Of course people can be misled. The Christian religion has a long history of doing this. Given the varying interpretations, by definition nearly all or maybe all Christian doctrines are false, they can’t all be right. this is where scholarly interpretation is useful, it takes away some of the partisan prejudices. It gives you information which you can use to weigh up matters. This isn’t to say personal revelation isn’t important. I spend a lot of time and effort cultivating my personal relationship with God. I’m wary of the false prophets Jesus repeatedly warned against. I take it as my responsibility to equip myself with information to enable me to spot them.

only you can say how you reconcile different faiths.

I have probably an even more diverse family background and my friends are extraordinarily diverse from Satanists to Gnostic to devout Catholic. I reconcile these by seeing the truth in all of them. The best way to do this is by learning as much as you can about the individuals and their beliefs. Curiosity is one of humanity’s greatest gifts.

How much do you value questioning establish doctrine? How do you deal with situations where doctrine flies in the face of established history. How do you challenge yourself to understand your faith more without simple confirmation bias?

People use the idea of being humble as a way of trying to show their superiority. Where there is some kind of situation where people are spreading information you know to be incorrect or very questionable what is the purpose of being humble?

@Kdtym10, this is a valid point. Although my definition of humility would indeed include challenging something that is incorrect, like the child did in 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. I have challenged authority numerous times, successfully and still will continue to challenge authority when I think it is important to do so.

You’re allowing falsehoods to be spread, you’re perpetuating lies through silence. What is moral about that?

Please point out where I have done this.

How much do you value questioning establish doctrine? How do you deal with situations where doctrine flies in the face of established history. How do you challenge yourself to understand your faith more without simple confirmation bias?

I have no choice but to do this. I don't belong exclusively to any particular Christian denomination. And regarding faith and confirmation bias, it is a life's work. Except my prayers do get answered...as in the very thing I pray for comes to pass. And to keep the faith I really do need to believe that and the continuance of it.

I have probably an even more diverse family background and my friends are extraordinarily diverse from Satanists to Gnostic to devout Catholic.

Sounds like my late mother, from Roman Catholic to a disturbing brush with some pretty dark witchcraft! Which scared her intensely as it worked!?! She was going through a difficult period of grief over the death of her sister and was very angry. Anyway I had to console her and she did cease the practice . She did see a priest before she died a few years later. Hopefully, he was able to set her mind at rest.

And I guess that’s what I was doing - challenging something that was incorrect - so meets your definition of humility. How do we know it was incorrect, through the intellect and research. If something was a personal feeling, no one can challenge that, it’s internal and individual.

Sorry, I didn’t mean you were allowing falsehoods, I was saying if one doesn’t challenge information one knows to be incorrect one is allowing the perpetuation of this misinformation.

Why was it “dark witchcraft”? Glad she found peace though.

Why was it “dark witchcraft

It caused harm to someone who had wronged her at work (as she understood it). Tbh the clue was in the ritualistic use of black candles and I forget what else but I would have been wary initially. She then was frightened further after a dream which involved her 'spirit guide' who took her 'haunting' and scaring people for 'a laugh'.

@heyhohello the first principle of witchcraft is 'do no harm' (I have two practising witches in my family) so your mother did a very foolish thing there. Then there's the threefold rule - whatever you do to another will rebound threefold unto you. Glad she learned the lesson - witchcraft is like any other faith, what matters is what you use it for.

@pointythings, indeed but she thought she was reasonable (in her anger and grief). She wanted them to truly understand how she felt. And that was the intention of her spell. However, maybe for that to happen they had to go through an equal level of hardship - which they undoubtedly will have done with what happened. (A firstborn child born with serious birth defects). Anyway as for it coming back threefold we have certainly have had further hardship in our family subsequently. It's one of the many reasons I lean into my faith...

Based on the first 25 years of my life not a cat in hell's chance I would be going to heaven,I'm not sure even hell would accept me.

I'd like to think I've redeemed myself in many ways but my parents were both Catholic my dad went to a convent and my mum a Catholic school I remember when I was little having to go to Sunday school.so much has happened in my life I'm not sure I really believe anymore.id like to think there is something due to the sheer numbers of family members I've lost already but it's hard to keep the faith.

Why do you think heaven and hell exists (fyi - they don’t) but it’s scary how many people have been brainwashed into thinking they do.

It's an interesting one, isn't it, @heyhohello ? I spent my toughest years doing what I could to help others - it really helped stop me from falling into a 'woe is me' mindset. Perhaps the way my life is (pretty much wonderful) is the threefold rule coming back to me? Who knows? Or perhaps it's just that having a positive approach to life pays off.

I didn't say I believe they exist clearly you have not read the complete post

I’m sorry your mum was so badly affected. Black candles aren’t necessarily bad, I use them in my practice all the time.

Maybe a stark warning of educating yourself fully before lighting yourself up in spirit. There’s a reason why the occult should perhaps stay occulted even as the risk of the pyre has diminished (at least literally)

Do you still think you’re feeling the affect of this or has it cleared?

@pointythings,

Perhaps the way my life is (pretty much wonderful) is the threefold rule coming back to me? Who knows? Or perhaps it's just that having a positive approach to life pays off.

There's no way to say for certain. I loved, still love, my mother but that side of her did really frustrate me. I felt intensely sympathetic to her grief but frustrated at her anger and subsequent actions at the same time. She epitomised the incredibly wilful. That focused will can be quite terrible and powerful. In dark times I do wonder whether she did something after I was diagnosed with cancer. She became very ill and didn't outlive me. That thought came to me after listening to Kate Bush's 'Running Up That Hill'. Those lyrics haunted me a bit at the time. She could be fiercely protective.

My faith helps reconcile this for me immensely. Forgiveness, the lifting of curses. You're right, and you have told me something of your life before. I wholeheartedly agree with a positive approach and doing good and applaud you for this.

Do you still think you’re feeling the affect of this or has it cleared?

@Kdtym10, I feel protected by God in Christ.

Good, glad to hear it.

Oh by the way the cancer was some years ago. I have been discharged now from the breast clinic. So that's good, thank God!

That is fantastic news💜