Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

1000 replies

VincitVeritas1 · 06/12/2023 17:45

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
sunflowerpinks · 28/12/2023 19:44

There truly is so much evidence for God, for Jesus and for the supernatural, if you're ever interested in exploring; it's not like it's something people randomly made up.

Really? Where is this evidence?

heyhohello · 28/12/2023 19:49

Why is it necessary to 'move forward

@sunflowerpinks
Because I don't want to stay static. That way leads to entropy - inertness. So I like to move forward, progress. Life is defined by movement, growth.

Parker231 · 28/12/2023 20:02

Mustardseed86 · 28/12/2023 19:40

Well, I wish you understood the reality of your choice. There truly is so much evidence for God, for Jesus and for the supernatural, if you're ever interested in exploring; it's not like it's something people randomly made up. Some of us Christians are even quite intelligent. But I wish you all the best, regardless.Smile

Totally understand my life choices - life is good so not looking to make any changes.

pointythings · 28/12/2023 20:08

I'd also be interested in the evidence. There's an awful lot of theological argument for the existence of God, but I've never seen any actual evidence that doesn't require a leap of faith to accept the premise that there is a God.

Mustardseed86 · 31/12/2023 21:23

Happy New Year everyone! Just thought I'd come back and quickly answer the question about evidence.

Firstly, yes, it is a leap of faith. That's the nature of faith. I've had experiences that give me so much reassurance of God's presence, but I'm still a human being with different moods, thoughts, experiences, I still have to actively choose faith at times. Ultimately until I go home to Heaven there will be that element of holding on to my faith at times. But there's more assurance than you would think. As the Bible says: seek, and you shall find. So that's an important point really, you do have to seek for yourself. I'm at a point in my faith journey where I couldn't necessarily go back and piece together every piece of evidence that has brought me to holding a strong faith, but I do know that I test everything, because truth is the most important thing. I have no desire to follow illusions.

But if you are a seeker, and open to it (i.e. "Does this make sense, does it seem trustworthy?" rather than "What reason can I find to dismiss this?") then yes, there is so much you can find and hold onto.

I was recently listening to this woman's testimony, which I found very beautiful:

On the more negative side, not all supernatural experiences and evidences are from God. There's a reason the church has exorcists, put it that way. And those involved in that ministry are taught to be very careful and skeptical, to look carefully for other causes and mental health needs. There are certain phenomena which are very well attested that have no explanation beyond the existence of the spiritual realm (both good and evil). And yes there are charlatans and fakes as well, so obviously discernment is important.

Poisoned to Death by Husband, Then Meets Jesus in Heaven!

Ana was Born in Alexandria, Egypt and raised in Canada as a Coptic Christian. She takes us on a moving journey of love, heartache, and betrayal but most of a...

https://youtu.be/uBnfkdL6uMM?si=U7oeNh5pRpWnd82O

sunflowerpinks · 01/01/2024 09:02

Thanks for sharing that video.

The fact that her husband was not charged or went to prison makes me wonder how true her story of being attacked/killed actually is.

I too am open to any real evidence of a God's existence.

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 11:10

I believe he went back to Egypt.

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 14:38

From 1 hr 14 in this video is some more information about this.

I'm very drawn to this woman, she reminds me a bit of my granny, who also had some amazing experiences, although not of this nature.

Anyway, take it or leave it. I've experienced and heard about (from people I trust) so many of these smaller and larger signs that there is much more to existence than just the physical world. So I trust it at this point. That's not why I'm Christian specifically, but it's all different pieces of one picture. You just have to get out of the mindset that IMO rather arrogantly sweeps away the enormous preponderance of human experience, history and culture in favour of 'science'/ purely physical materialism. Not that science isn't valid and important obviously, it's just not the whole story. (I'm not calling you arrogant btw, just a general comment on the direction we've gone in as a culture.)

I apologise for the cheesiness of these YouTube channels by the way. It's not in my usual wheelhouse, but it popped up and I thought it was interesting.

NDE GOOSEBUMPS! Holy Spirit SAVES Woman After Being Murdered By Husband | Ana Christina

Watch This FREE NDE Course: Discover The Transformative Power Of Near-Death Experiences👉 https://nextlevelsoul.com/nde-free-courseAll links to today's gues...

https://youtu.be/l7l1WuB19cU?si=TiVJzhuZeZDFqVMq

sunflowerpinks · 01/01/2024 17:02

You just have to get out of the mindset that IMO rather arrogantly sweeps away the enormous preponderance of human experience, history and culture in favour of 'science'

I don't think anyone is sweeping away people's experiences?

But I do think that science has managed to explain a lot about our evolution that wasn't understood when the Bible was written.

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 17:06

sunflowerpinks · 01/01/2024 17:02

You just have to get out of the mindset that IMO rather arrogantly sweeps away the enormous preponderance of human experience, history and culture in favour of 'science'

I don't think anyone is sweeping away people's experiences?

But I do think that science has managed to explain a lot about our evolution that wasn't understood when the Bible was written.

Of course, we understand so much more than we used to. The arrogance I'm talking about is the mindset of thinking because we understand more about the physical world then we have all the answers we need. Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing. Obviously many scientists leave room for God and are believers though, so I'm not suggesting it's universal.

pointythings · 01/01/2024 17:46

@Mustardseed86 it's an interesting point. However, there are many flavours of atheist, as you know, and the ones I hang out with tend to be at peace with accepting that there are things they do not know and things that humanity may never know.

And yet they choose not to believe in a deity because 'we don't know' does not equate to 'therefore God'. Speaking for myself I take enormous comfort from my belief that there is no deity watching their creation and thinking 'that'll do'. Better to believe it is all chance and that as human beings it behoves us to do what we can in our earthly lives to make things better.

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:14

An empty universe doesn't sound very comforting to me. I'm so glad we were created by a loving Father. It's not "we don't know and therefore God", - He has revealed Himself, if only we would listen! And it's not "that'll do" either. Goodness, what an impoverished understanding. I'm so sorry because I know I'm being offensive but it's just hard to comprehend when He has given us so much, even given us Himself, and people don't want to know.

Parker231 · 01/01/2024 18:20

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:14

An empty universe doesn't sound very comforting to me. I'm so glad we were created by a loving Father. It's not "we don't know and therefore God", - He has revealed Himself, if only we would listen! And it's not "that'll do" either. Goodness, what an impoverished understanding. I'm so sorry because I know I'm being offensive but it's just hard to comprehend when He has given us so much, even given us Himself, and people don't want to know.

Many of us don’t want to know as we don’t believe in the existence of god/heaven etc. why is this hard to understand? Your god hasn’t given anything or revealed himself so no need for any support.
Life is good so no need for any religious beliefs or rituals.

pointythings · 01/01/2024 18:33

@Mustardseed86 and that is the arrogance of the believer, I'm afraid. You think we are impoverished because we are happy without the presence of your deity in our lives. It does not even occur to you that we take comfort in not believing in the same way that you do in your faith - no, what we believe must be 'lesser' in your eyes. I respect your faith. I wish you could respect mine.

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:34

It's not hard to understand in that sense. But when you know the Lord, it's equal parts bizarre and deeply sad to hear the way you talk about Him. I'm glad your life is good. I pray you come to know the author of life, because it can only get better. God bless. I'm going to leave this thread now, with my prayers for His blessings and understanding in all our hearts (mine included). In Jesus' name, I pray to be able to meet you in heaven one day and we can have a good chat and laugh together.

FancyJapflack · 01/01/2024 18:37

Nope. I don’t believe in god and I figure if he existed and he really wanted me to believe, he’d do something to prove his existence
to me.

Even if I did believe in him, heaven would be hell for me because none of my family believe and therefore every moment in heaven would be torture for me because I’d know my family were in hell which apparently isn’t a nice place.

TriOptimim · 01/01/2024 18:38

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:34

It's not hard to understand in that sense. But when you know the Lord, it's equal parts bizarre and deeply sad to hear the way you talk about Him. I'm glad your life is good. I pray you come to know the author of life, because it can only get better. God bless. I'm going to leave this thread now, with my prayers for His blessings and understanding in all our hearts (mine included). In Jesus' name, I pray to be able to meet you in heaven one day and we can have a good chat and laugh together.

How disrespectful.

Parker231 · 01/01/2024 18:42

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:34

It's not hard to understand in that sense. But when you know the Lord, it's equal parts bizarre and deeply sad to hear the way you talk about Him. I'm glad your life is good. I pray you come to know the author of life, because it can only get better. God bless. I'm going to leave this thread now, with my prayers for His blessings and understanding in all our hearts (mine included). In Jesus' name, I pray to be able to meet you in heaven one day and we can have a good chat and laugh together.

Very presumptuous that you think that you will be going to heaven!
I’ll never understand that someone thinks it’s sad or bizarre that other people to have different equally valid opinions as to the existence or not of god.

pointythings · 01/01/2024 19:04

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 18:34

It's not hard to understand in that sense. But when you know the Lord, it's equal parts bizarre and deeply sad to hear the way you talk about Him. I'm glad your life is good. I pray you come to know the author of life, because it can only get better. God bless. I'm going to leave this thread now, with my prayers for His blessings and understanding in all our hearts (mine included). In Jesus' name, I pray to be able to meet you in heaven one day and we can have a good chat and laugh together.

You really are incapable of respecting those who do not believe. That is what I find so sad, becaase I have many friends of faith who are able to respect non believers as equal.

sunflowerpinks · 01/01/2024 19:33

It's not hard to understand in that sense. But when you know the Lord, it's equal parts bizarre and deeply sad to hear the way you talk about Him. I'm glad your life is good. I pray you come to know the author of life, because it can only get better. God bless. I'm going to leave this thread now, with my prayers for His blessings and understanding in all our hearts (mine included). In Jesus' name, I pray to be able to meet you in heaven one day and we can have a good chat and laugh together.

I find that very disrespectful. Why the need to leave the thread when people are questioning God's existence? Why the need to pray for us? Why the need to assume we'll meet again in heaven? Confused

VincitVeritas1 · 01/01/2024 20:08

Just a flying visit to wish you all a very happy new year!

@Parker231 I see you've mentioned the Mormons a few times. I think it's important to point out their beliefs differ considerably from the mainstream Christian view:

'Christians can be thankful for Mormon friends and family members who are good neighbours and share many of the same ethical standards and moral commitments. But Mormonism and Christianity are not the same. Far from it. Though the language sounds similar at times, the beliefs are quite distinct. Mormons do not understand history, God, man, salvation, heaven, hell, the cross, Jesus, or the Trinity as the canonical Scriptures teach, nor do they agree with the conciliar doctrine taught by the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church over the last two thousand years.'

I too am open to any real evidence of a God's existence.

@sunflowerpinks That's great 😊 I think the greatest proof is the fact that we are all here discussing it!

You might want to read J. Warner's works. He is an American cold-case homicide detective, who was a committed atheist until the age of 35. He's written a book called ‘God’s Crime Scene: A Cold Case Detective Examines the Evidence for a Divinely Created Universe'. Here is a summary of the main points:

The Beginning “The Standard Cosmological Model, accepted by physicists today is grounded on the foundational premise that the universe came into being from something beyond the space, time, matter, and energy of our universe.”
Signs of Design “The totality and interconnected nature of our galaxy’s unique backstory, along with its rare circumstances and unlikely conditions, overwhelmingly indicate design.”

Consciousness “In order to think rationally about our thoughts, we must have the freedom to do so, but this freedom is unavailable if the laws of physics and chemistry are controlling our thoughts.”
Law and Order (Morality) “Naturalism cannot adequately explain the existence of objective moral truths or objective, transcendent personal obligations.”
The Origin of Life “With each passing year, the level of complexity and interaction at the cellular level has become more apparent and more difficult to explain.”
Free Will “Choice is a feature of design and a reflection of intelligent agency. Designers make conscious choices between options. Their designs often reflect these decisions, especially when other options are available.”

Evidence of Evil “True evil requires a source of transcendent righteousness, a source for goodness that transcends the universe and everything in it.”

Is there evidence for God with no natural explanation? | John Lennox

Oxford Professor Emeritus John Lennox explores evidence for God. | UC San Diego, 2015 | View full forum at https://youtu.be/mkKNTs3tbJ4 | Explore more at htt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ZOs2em1ZA

OP posts:
Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 20:11

I apologise for offending anyone. I'm leaving the thread because I've shared what I can, it's been interesting to talk to other people but there comes a time when there's nothing more to say. We're all entitled to our beliefs, these are mine. That can't be a surprise on a Christian discussion thread in the religion section. Just as you reject God, I reject atheism but that doesn't mean I don't respect you or your right to make that decision.

Parker231 · 01/01/2024 20:12

@VincitVeritas1 - I’m aware of the differences with Mormons but scary as to what a hold their cult had over them.

Parker231 · 01/01/2024 20:14

Mustardseed86 · 01/01/2024 20:11

I apologise for offending anyone. I'm leaving the thread because I've shared what I can, it's been interesting to talk to other people but there comes a time when there's nothing more to say. We're all entitled to our beliefs, these are mine. That can't be a surprise on a Christian discussion thread in the religion section. Just as you reject God, I reject atheism but that doesn't mean I don't respect you or your right to make that decision.

Your comments have been disrespectful - life is good without the chains of religion. You seem to have difficulties in accepting that others don’t need religion to enjoy their lives.

VincitVeritas1 · 01/01/2024 20:18

Parker231 · 01/01/2024 20:12

@VincitVeritas1 - I’m aware of the differences with Mormons but scary as to what a hold their cult had over them.

Indeed it is.

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread