Aren't all evangelical churches spiritually abusive?

[harerunner]

....by their very nature!

Their whole message... heaven if you believe and obey, everlasting hell and torment if you dare not to, is surely spiritually abusive in itself. It's not just a pastor or two, it's the whole system!

I have always felt that the whole god thing about do what I say or you'll burn in hell forever is akin to terrorism. One of the very many reasons I am not religious.

If you go to a decent church this is not the message they believe nor preach.

I don’t agree with that theology. But not all evangelical churches believe that either.

Yes I agree with your statement.

Even the most liberal churches have at their heart a patriarchy (hierarchy) and an orthodoxy (right teaching/thinking).

With this at its heart the natural outcome is control in order to adhere.

So, In order to ensure adherence to the ‘right thinking’ there a number of overt and subliminal ways of encouraging group think and non-questioning eg you will find that the general language of liturgy, and songs reinforce passivity through their language.

You also get the main leader who invariably has more experience of hearing from God to enshrine their status as special and other. And unquestionable.

’Right thinking’ also means wrong thinking needs to be discouraged. This can be through social exclusion if you don’t fit or any real doubts glossed over with deflection (God is in control, faith over fear etc).

It is impossible to get away from this as it is enmeshed in the way it has developed over time.

Really great post Cherryana. Thank you.

You realise you have just written off the whole of Islam too? That belief is mainstream in Islam too.

I spent a bit of time in an evangelical church and they didn’t go on about hell. I only heard one reference to it and that was an acknowledgement of how problematic hell was.

I think you could argue that all 'hardcore' religions are abusive, regardless of the chosen deity to be worshipped.
Any religion which preaches damnation and draconian rules / traditions to exert power and manipulation over people has no place in a modern society.
However for a good proportion of people having a faith can be extremely beneficial to their life.
All religions can be a source of great good or a source of great evil, t'was ever thus.

Yes, I'm aware that i could have applied my OP to other religions such as mainstream Islam, and other branches of Christianity, such as Catholicism.

I think this is the main point. But, of course, nowadays this is not just limited to church.

There's an orthodoxy which runs throughout society. A right way of thinking, stray from that you risk damnation, to be cut off from the modern gods, cancelled from social media, loss of income by being forced out of your job etc.

If a church doesn't believe that you need to "be saved" and that there isn't a judgment day, then I don't think you can call it an evangelical church... it may be "happy clappy" and use many of the trite terms that many evangelical churches do, but it's theology is liberal.

Yeah, for sure. Toxic.

@Maatandosiris

I think this is the main point. But, of course, nowadays this is not just limited to church. There's an orthodoxy which runs throughout society. A right way of thinking, stray from that you risk damnation, to be cut off from the modern gods, cancelled from social media, loss of income by being forced out of your job etc.

You have a point, and I abhor cancel
culture, but it's nowhere near as pernicious as promoting an everlasting hell.

But if you don't believe in it then you won't be scared or offended by the insinuation of hell as you won't believe in it surely? I am an atheist which is why I think if it brings people comfort to believe there's a heaven (which you don't have to be perfect or even a decent person to be welcomed into, just a believer) then I don't have an issue with it because for me I don't believe in an afterlife.

I was saying the same this week. I support the investigation into Mike Pilavachi but I think “using spiritual authority to control people” as the findings reportedis something that could be said of pretty much any evangelical leader as a result of the theology they preach and the implications / expectations this has for congregants’ lives

I go to an evangelical church and I can't remember having heard hell mentioned in services. The term evangelical church is quite often misinterpreted - we believe in the bible being central to our faith and we want to share the good news (evangelise), it's not all the happy, clappy music, mega churches and preaching about hell that people commonly think of when they hear evangelical church.
https://www.eauk.org/about-us/nations/northern-ireland/ni--blog/what-is-an-evangelical

The notion of salvation is at the very heart of Christianity. Christianity is less about ‘being good’ and is instead about being saved. That’s the core defining belief of Christianity.

I don’t know but the one a friend got involved with was imo.

Most religion is like this. That people wage wars, kill, turn against family members or commit acts of terrorism in the name of god is quite extraordinary when you truly sit and think about it. The irony is religion is responsible for much of the evil in this world.

Not the church that I attend. I suppose it would be an "evangelical" church but we don't talk like that.
Are you a believer because if you're not this shouldn't worry you.
I think the term abuse is maybe a bit extreme.

Its like saying that doctors/dieticians are abusive when they say that someone needs to diet/change their lifestyle or they'll likely die.

They aren't making up the 'rules' governing healthy bodies, but they are helping people be the right side of it.

In the same way, if you truly believe that some people are going to heaven and others hell, because of what's written in the Bible (or any other Holy Book), then you don't make the 'rules' but you are keeping people be the right side of them.

I have very fluctuating beliefs and I've been on both the Christian and atheist side.

What I can say though is that if I were God it's not the system I'd have in place. Equally l think it would be an awfully church that truly believed people would be condemned to a future of suffering, who did nothing to try to stop this. If you love your neighbour you don't want them to suffer .

So I don't think it's the churches that are abusive in preaching this. You could argue that the abusive bit is a LOT higher up...

This is the bit I struggle with, why would a loving God have such a horrible system. But equally, I accept that we don't know everything and that if there is a God, and this is the 'system', then either there are things beyond even God's control, or maybe God's character is different from the one we are told. Anyway, that are the ramblings of a person who kind of believes in God but isn't sure she likes God right now.

To blame churches though is wrong. If you knew a bomb was about to go off and were yelling at people to leave or be blown up, it's the bomber who is in the wrong, not the messenger who is trying to save people.

Ps: most churches thankfully downplay the hell bit as it's horrible, unhelpful and emphasizing the positive is far more pleasant for everyone.

Apparently Christianity is all about love but your post displays an jarring lack of it!

Firstly, they may not go on about it at your church but if its evangelical then the notion of heaven and hell is very probably part of its doctrinal basis.

Secondly, if you're an evangelical Christian, surely as a nonbeliever I should be worried about it... very worried... it should be the thing that worries me the most! I can only assume that you don't give a damn whether I burn for eternity! How loving!

Thirdly, I believe that evangelical churches are spiritually abusive at their core. Yet you are telling me not to worry about it because I'm not in one. That's like telling me: "why are you concerned about the Children's Home down the road where there's an abusive worker?..., it's not as though your children live there". It's the complete antithesis of a loving attitude!

@Cherryana you think there isn't an orthodoxy and a patriarchy in the secular meta narrative?

Its like saying that doctors/dieticians are abusive when they say that someone needs to diet/change their lifestyle or they'll likely die.

Fair enough, but if these churches are correct in their warnings, then it's the god they worship that's spiritually abusive!

My church isn't part of the evangelical alliance however it is evangelical in the sense that it believes in sharing the gospel and is 'happy clappy'. I believe in universal reconciliation and I'm definitely not the only person in my church who does.