Atheists -what makes you so sure?

[OMG12]

I often wonder what makes atheists so sure that there isn’t a god. I’m not talking a particular iteration of the Divine, eg it’s easy to say I can’t believe there is a God because of childhood cancer, but that is predicated on the concept of a God who is only good and considers childhood cancer as bad and further is capable and willing to stop all bad things. I’m talking gods not religions here which a very different things.

Most cultures throughout time have have gods so it’s somewhat of an anomaly to not believe. I just wonder why people don’t believe. (And can we try and keep this a decent debate rather than any of the sky fairy shit those with an inability to debate a point beyond regurgitated social media soundbites seem limited to)

I agree about religion. That’s why I excluded it in the OP.

im not sure about the “feels illogical”, surely it’s one or the other?

@OMG12 "So you’re agnostic rather than an atheist?"

Well, technically, yes. Technically, so is Richard Dawkins, and that is how he describes himself. But for all practical purposes he-(and I)- are atheists. I don't know 100% that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. But I know it will.

I don't believe in fairies, leprechauns etc as there's no evidence of them existing in reality.

There is as much evidence of god as there is of those things.

So I can't get my head around believing in god any more than I can believing in fairies.

I do appreciate many people do genuinely believe and find comfort in religion.

I have very rarely met a believer who is respectful of people not believing which is always disappointing.

Gods are a human construct, initially invented to account for what ancient cultures could not yet explain scientifically. Thunder gods, water gods, vulcan(o) gods, harvest gods, etc.

Once the old gods lost their purpose, the ‘one true god’ replaced them. Except, different cultures all have a different god and, in their opinion, only their god is the ‘true’ god.

But there is no convincing evidence whatsoever of any supreme being who loves all of us, hears our prayers, and sends us to hell if we don't do what ‘he’ wants and/or if we don't ‘accept him and repent’. It is magical thinking, and that is why I am sure.

I don’t believe anything said in the bible, including all the ‘magic’ like parting seas. Read Harry Potter for that.

I was forced to go to synagogue as a kid and hated it. Didn’t see the point.

I also don’t NEED to believe in god or see the point as I would live my life exactly the same way.

I know several people who believe in god as they want there to be an afterlife and can’t cope with the thought of not seeing deceased loved ones again. I don’t have the same fear.

I’m a very logical and practical person and tbh, I have so few religious friends now as we are so utterly different in our ways of thinking, to the point if you believe in god, I don’t trust your judgement in much else.

Lack of evidence. It’s not possible scientifically.
I also don’t like the idea that my morals are dictated by someone else.
I get that people find it comforting. I briefly wished I believed in a god when my DM died suddenly.

I know lots of people who believe in a god who respect people who don’t believe I respect peoples position of tgere not being a god, but as this thread usuggests I find it difficult to understand how people can be 100% sure, I’m 99.999% sure the is a god (although I have a broad definition. Of e we hat that is) but will always admit that I can’t be 100%. I’m always curious though where the certainty comes from when people state “ there is no God”. Surely most people are actually on a spectrum of agnosticism (I’m always curious when people state that god exists with 100% certainty too)

We know the Big Bang is fact because we can still see it happening, Brian cox explains this well

But @OMG12 would you say you find it 'difficult to understand' why I 100% don't believe in dragons? Or leprechauns? Or unicorns? Because to me, there's a little evidence of those and nobody has ever questioned why I feel sure they don't exist.

I think that’s extraordinarily narrow minded though I know a lot of cross phobic recovering Catholics who are atheists fr the same reasons.

Theres many ways to read the Bible (and other religious books) apart from literally, looking at the symbols, number encoding (Gematria) etc.

Many of the most intelligent people I know believe in a higher power, others are atheists. Just because someone reaches a different conclusion to you doesn’t make them less intelligent. I hope you find some healing.

Yes I would find it difficult to understand that certainty - yes. I would start by asking you to define a dragon and then ask you why you’re 100% certain they have never existed.

Well you can still see something happening which is modelled back to a theory of how the universe began. But actually it doesn’t tell us everything even if it’s correct.

Why is it not possible scientifically? Another poster has said if god is discovered it will be proved scientifically. Which is it? What part of science excludes God (I’m not talking about a religion specific god as stated in the OP I’m talking a divine source.

Yes I would find it difficult to understand that certainty - yes. I would start by asking you to define a dragon and then ask you why you’re 100% certain they have never existed

That's really interesting OP. I guess maybe people fall into two camps in general, those who are able / willing to suspend disbelief and those who aren't able / willing to suspend disbelief.

And also two camps re viewing a lack of evidence for something equalling enough evidence to discount something existing versus those who view a lack of evidence equaling enough evidence something may exist.

I used to be a very, very strong atheist. I'm now what other people would consider a 'Jesus freak'.
When I was an atheist, I hated the idea of a God. How could an all loving God 'do' the things he's done, or allow such trauma to enter the world. The Bible never made any sense to me. My family were all strong atheists so I was raised one too. These were my only views at the time. Of course that's changed now and I see things very differently. But I think you'll find the majority of atheists have the same way of thinking as I once did.

@OMG12 "I find it difficult to understand how people can be 100% sure,"
As I said earlier, I don't think most people would say they are. It's a shorthand. It's technically impossible to be 100% sure about anything. But the sun will rise in the east. If you drop a brick it will fall.

Lol you’re funny. I am perfectly fine thanks and don’t need healing :)

Couple of examples for you if you’d like.

I once agreed to attend a church service in France with friends in my building. They spoke in the service about how god has no influence on people’s actions as people have free will. At the end of the service, they prayed to god to ask him to help them think of ways to help a country who had recently had a natural disaster that killed many. After the service, I asked my friends how god has no influence on people’s actions, but you’ve literally just asked him to influence your thoughts/actions on how to help. She couldn’t answer me. I found this way of life and thinking just idealistic and nothing else.

Another example is a muslim friend I used to have. She told me off for owning a vibrator as ‘I should wait for a man to give me pleasure’ (lol). She also believed that anyone entering a mosque should wear a headscarf to respect the religion, but she was then outraged when I told her in France, no one is allowed to wear religious attire in schools to promote equality. So she could only respect her own culture but not others. And yet you call ME narrow minded.

There are too many interpretations of religion and god and i’m quite happy and at peace not to believe, and not to get involed with these silly beliefs.

I agree with you about the various iterations of Gods that are envisaged by religions but I’m a perennialist so I see some truth in them all but more as reflections of elements of The All in Hermetic terms.

But you seem to be basing your certainty on a very narrow, religion specific concept of a God. Where do you get to with say a more acosmic definition?

@Yahyahs22 There's no such thing as a "strong" atheist. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. It's a binary position. You can be strongly against organised religion. But atheism just is.

So actually, based on those examples you have more of an issue with religion than the concept of a god? You seem very angry so I’m sorry about that.

Do you mind me asking you what led you to change your position

But even those ideas aren’t 100% true. There will come a day when the Sun won’t rise in the east (and this is only true now from a geocentric perspective the sun is going no where, it’s really an illusion based on perspective. Again a brick falling needs certain conditions eg gravity, again it’s a matter of perspective predicated on certain conditions existing. If I shifted positions these “facts” would no longer be necessarily true.

I suspect what is meant here is strongly expressed or staunchly held position.

I think I'm an atheist because it just seems logical to me. If god (or gods) really existed wouldn't they sort out all the false gods (most religions claim to be the only true belef). If god doesn't exist humans would have invented some all-powerful, omniscient being to keep populations under control. And yes, that is what all societies have done throughout history

I'm 100% sure Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy don't exist because I acted out those roles for my children.

@OMG12 Once again, technically, you're right. But I don't recommend holding a brick over your bare toe and letting go.