Why is religion still a thing?

[Scarletthoo2]

As the title states, I would like to know why people still choose religion rather than science, please give me your personal view and opinions.

I was christened at birth, but grown up an atheist. I'm just curious to know why so many people still believe in religion and god. Considering there's undeniable evidence that everything on earth is simply made of atoms and particles and wasn't created by an otherworldly person.

Hopefully this doesn't cause offence to some people, like I've said, just simply want others views.

I can't say for sure whether or not animals have souls

Hmm but given that we are part of the animal kingdom and humans developed from apes, i would have thought that all animals, including our beloved pets, have souls too?

You seem really triggered. There is nothing in my post to suggest a 'holier than thou' attitude.

Are you trying to tell me there's absolutely no difference between you and say, a slug or a sheep, or a chicken?

I meant your form of non-intellectual Christianity ( you belong to the Church of England ?) as I posted later a nice discussion of Origen. And many modern Christians have taken him up.
There are plenty of Christian theologians and mystics you could discuss and answer people's questions. Relying on" faith alone " is just weak.

Doesn’t sound triggered at all. It’s just by you saying that “what we know is that god holds the life of every living thing”, stating it as a fact. But actually you don’t know, no one does, so it’s not a fact. It’s just your subjective view. But you can’t be presenting it as a fact.

Great thread - thanks for starting the discussion!

Are you trying to tell me there's absolutely no difference between you and say, a slug or a sheep, or a chicken?

No, obviously there are differences between me and a slug or chicken

But I was referring to the fact that humans ARE part of the animal kingdom, that we share the same ancestors.

Living members of the primate order include monkeys, apes, and humans; and any member of this order of mammals is called a primate. At some point in the distant past, we shared ape-like ancestors with all these modern groups of primates. We share between 93 percent and almost 99 percent of our DNA sequences with them, providing hard evidence that we have relatively recent common ancestors.

So by that logic why would we (homo sapiens) have a soul but a gorilla doesn't?
THAT is what I don't understand ?!

I have both a scientific background (science degree) and am a Christian. What I have learned in my area of science (biochemistry) has only served to leave me in complete awe of our Creator.

So now it seems there is no assurance of being there in a literal sense and none that you will ever see your family again.

There is every assurance you will be there. If you believe in Jesus and accept that he died for everyone's sins, your own included, then you will be saved and you will be there. Whether you see your family again very much depends on their own beliefs. I wonder whether even if someone you love dies and they are, for example, an atheist, whether upon death they will meet their Creator and will be offered eternal life at that point. I don't know, no-one does.

And another question: Do your pets go to heaven when they die? Will you meet them again?

This question was something I was agonising over quite recently after the very painful loss of a young pet. I believe that as God created all creatures (and would have known from the outset that humans would form special bonds with some species) that therefore there must be all those creatures in Heaven. Otherwise, in my view, it would be a bleak place! Whether those are our own pets re-created or whether they are other animals I don't know. I hope it is the former.

I honestly feel that if one tries to 'logic' the afterlife or indeed even this life, then you will fail. At some point you need to take a leap of faith. If you have questions then it's best to address your Creator rather than Mumsnet. If you sincerely want answers, that is.

Of course there are differences, but how do you know that animals don’t have a soul? . More and more ground breaking research shows that in-fact animals are sentient beings that have an entire range of emotions, feelings, critical thinking etc. And this is just the tip of the iceberg of what we are beginning to understand about other living creatures, on this earth.

So, given this, why would other animals not have soul and be less important in your gods eyes?

As a polytheist, a pythagorean who believes in reincarnation, absolutely animals all; insects, worms, whales etc have souls.
But Here is a Jewish point of view: yes .
Times of Israel; do animals have souls
This describes animals having hayyah (life). However, in the Hebrew it also has the word nephesh in combination with hayyah, which is the exact same wording as the description of the soul in the creation of Adam in Genesis 2:7. In other words, though nephesh is only translated as “life” here, the Hebrew speaks of the soul. Animals thus have a nephesh hayyah just like Adam.

Animals did not transgress any commandment in the Garden of Eden, save the serpent who was the embodiment of the devil. Consequently, they were not punished and will not be subject to God’s last judgment. Hence, Paradise belongs to them. If eating continues in heaven Isaiah’s prophecy indicates a return to vegetarianism the way it was in the Garden of Eden for humans and animals before death was introduced. Animals were not originally created as a source of food but to keep Adam company (Gen. 2:9,16-20).

@AlexiaR I was taking their previous posts into account. Fair enough, it's not fact as some see it, but it would be rather tedious to state "I believe..." or "I think this might be true" before starting each statement.

@Blaueblumen We also share 98% of our DNA with pigs - it doesn't make us descended from them. I said we can't know whether animals have an eternal soul because there's nothing in the Bible to suggest as much.

But the bible was put together 2,000 years ago- people back then, humans had zero understanding of the nature and lives of animals. Zero knowledge . Fast forward those 2,000 years, and there is a vast, growing body of ground breaking , scientific, empirically measured research into the lives of animals, on so many levels. And as I said before, this is just the tip of the iceberg in our knowledge and understanding.

So just because it doesn’t “say it” in the bible, doesn’t mean its not true.

The Bible, and so many of the other holy texts, categorically ask us humans to suspend all attempts at “critical thinking”, discouraging us from gaining objective knowledge in order to make informed decisions, in order to crest inform objective views.

Seriously, you can also get information from other, very reputable and accurate sources, about our existence.

There's a difference between being descended from something and sharing a common ancestor. We do share a common ancestor with pigs, if you go back far enough.

@AlexiaR

The Bible, and so many of the other holy texts, categorically ask us humans to suspend all attempts at “critical thinking”, discouraging us from gaining objective knowledge in order to make informed decisions, in order to crest inform objective views.

What about all those highly intellectual doctors, professors of physics, surgeons etc? Are they all putting their 'critical thinking' to one side?

Seriously, you can also get information from other, very reputable and accurate sources, about our existence.

I didn't say you couldn't. Nobody (I hope) is using the Bible as a scientific text book. I was attempting to answer a specific question about whether or not animals have souls and go to Heaven.

If you have questions then it's best to address your Creator rather than Mumsnet.

Do you have his contact details? I'd love to ask him lots of questions!

But, genuinely, how are we meant to 'believe' so much that does not make scientific sense. As others have said, our understanding of the world has grown so much since the Bible was written?!

Sorry, meant to say, all those highly intellectual Christian doctors, professors of physics, surgeons etc.

Do you have his contact details? I'd love to ask him lots of questions!

@Blaueblumen There’s this thing called prayer, you might have heard of it. 😄

Is there any evidence that prayers are heard by God and that your prayers come true?

I've just had a quick look online and cannot find any evidence...

In 2006 the Templeton Foundation funded the most rigorous, empirically sound study of the possible positive effects of prayer ever conducted in the history of science. The study — which received over $2.4 million dollars in funding — was double-blind and involved a control group and an experimental group.

The researchers randomly divided up over 1,800 coronary bypass heart surgery patients, from six different hospitals, into three groups: the first group had Christians praying for them; Christians prayed that the selected heart patients would have “a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications”—and the patients in this group were told that people might or might not be praying for them. The second group of heart patients was not prayed for, but they were also told that they might or might not have people praying for them. The third group was prayed for, and these patients were told that they were definitely being prayed for. The Christians that were doing all the praying were given the first name and last initial of the specific patients they were to pray for.

The result: There was virtually no difference in the recovery trajectories of each group, with all three groups experiencing more or less the same rates and levels of complications. The only minor differences that did arise actually worked against the prayers: 18 percent of the patients who had been prayed for suffered major complications such as strokes or heart attacks, compared to only 13 percent of the patients who did not receive any prayers.

Sorry about the crossed out part - that was meant to look like this -

@Blaueblumen

Yes, I have personal experience of the power of prayer, but I appreciate that's not exactly scientifically proven!

What an odd study. The researchers don't seem to have much of an understanding of what prayer involves; their version is very prescriptive, for example. There's also no account made for whether the patients themselves are Christians - a rather large oversight in my opinion.

So god only helps people who are Christian?

So god only helps people who are Christian?

@Marths Not at all. It's complicated, but remote, almost anonymous prayer is quite different to directly praying for the healing of someone who is willing and open to receive that healing. Faith plays a key part - if the patient is thinking, "What a waste of time, there is no God, this is never going to work!" then it probably won't. Jesus chose on occasion not to perform miracles due the the people's unbelief.

Jesus chose on occasion not to perform miracles due the the people's unbelief.

That's almost a form of blackmailing isn't it?

If I don't believe in God, not only will I end up in Hell after I die, but I will also not benefit from God's healing powers??

That does sound like he only helps Christians.

I cannot find any empirical, scientifically rigorous evidence that has ever peoved the power of prayer. And just think about it: if praying produced the prayed-for outcomes, no prayed-for mothers would ever die of breast cancer, no prayed-for teens would ever die on the operating table, no prayed-for dogs or cats would ever fail to return home, and tens of millions of praying people would never die from starvation resulting from a lack of rain. Three hundred million people have died from smallpox in the 20th century alone — clearly, all of their prayers, and their parents’ prayers, and their children’s prayers, and their spouses’ prayers, did not have the desired healing effect.