Why is religion still a thing?

[Scarletthoo2]

As the title states, I would like to know why people still choose religion rather than science, please give me your personal view and opinions.

I was christened at birth, but grown up an atheist. I'm just curious to know why so many people still believe in religion and god. Considering there's undeniable evidence that everything on earth is simply made of atoms and particles and wasn't created by an otherworldly person.

Hopefully this doesn't cause offence to some people, like I've said, just simply want others views.

I have another question to those who believe in God and Heaven: where is Heaven and how do people get there after they die?

Ah I’ve certainly heard of him, slightly off my radar but will take a look. Had a look through that website v quickly, I’m definitely going to look at the adaptation of the LRP, I always find different adaptations through light (if you’ll pardon the pun) on it in my own practice more.

I find the intersection of Greek influence on the Abrahamic faiths really interesting re Gematria. Obviously many see it in the earliest books of the OT. But everything I’ve read indicates it came from Greece prob after the conquests of ATG. Keep meaning to look into it more.

@Blaueblumen You're very welcome to join the discussion around Heaven on the thread I posted:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/4761536-will-you-make-it-to-heaven?

Thanks I'll have a look!

But if any Believers on this thread have any ideas about Heaven and the logistics of it then I'd love to hear.

Before I go to vincit veritas' post, my gut reaction about heaven, creation and time-

I don't think in terms of a concrete heaven, with clouds and harps and stuff.
It might be rest, or answers/understanding/satisfaction, it's a bit nebulous. What it isn't, is a perfected form of earth. Our relationships won't be the same, so while we might be reunited in some way with nearest and dearest departed, it won't be all 'hooray, granny jones, great to see you! Have you seen uncle Bill?'.

Time- well physics is pretty woolly about time as I understand it. Aren't we all in parallel overlapping spirals of existence or something, with the possibility of poking holes through to other points?
So I'm pretty content to stay woolly about creation, beginning, end.

Equally there is no real moment of judgement, or sorting into heaven and hell. I don't see why God would judge someone on how they feel/believe at the moment of their death, when S/he is eternal. For me, we get some kind of perception of truth, and get to decide whether to opt in or out.

For me, the whole shebang is outside human understanding. We have no words, no concepts for that level. Well, the astrophysicists might, but I don't.

The creeds (speaking about Christianity) are both specific and vague. There is so, so much room for interpretation of language.
That's where maths wins, I believe. Certainty or at least clarity.

Thank you for this question, because it beautifully illustrates the difficulty of explaining faith, which is that we simply don't have the words or experience to make sense of God and heaven.

To ask, "How do we get there?" assumes that time, space and travel work in exactly the same way in the next world as they do in this. I think this is extremely unlikely to be the case but, again, we have neither the words nor the experience to think in a different way.

I’m not a mainstrem
christian, but my belief coming from my experience is that heaven is a reabsorbtion back into the divine source. It was a feeling of simultaneously being lifted up and going inward. It’s not some pseudo earth in the clouds, in fact there is no “where”. so there are no logistics of getting “there”. It’s outside any concept of time and space.

Sorry that was meant for @QueenHippolyta

Greek influence on ancient Judaism is really understudied.So much of Kabbalah has Greek influence; emanations and I've read that too about Gematria's Greek influence . The Western magical tradition come from Greco-Egyptian Greek magic

@whyhere : "is that we simply don't have the words or experience to make sense of God and heaven."
Hinduism and Buddhism and Stoicism and Platonism all use words to explain God, eternity and the next life or lives. We have the words but your form of religion doesn't.

Yes I think the influence of the Greeks cannot be understated on the western tradition. I suspect that in an effort to establish lineage between the old and New Testament esp by Richaleau Ficino etc el then the Greek influence of the late MA Kabbalah and subsequent Cabala was washed out

Heaven seems to have gone from a promise and justification for horrific suffering to some vague and nebulous "something up there"

I don't mind as I never believed a word of it anyway, but the bible made promises which we seem to be saying were not meant to be taken seriously.

1 Thessalonians 4.16-17 for example, but many other places and millions of sermons.

The major plot arc is about people convicted of being born and therefore deserving of torture and death, but saved by Jesus spending a weekend dead.

That along with faith was supposed to secure you a place in heaven where you'd be with your loved ones.

So now it seems there is no assurance of being there in a literal sense and none that you will ever see your family again.

Would people really sign up for that? It's not what I'd call a reward.

And another question: Do your pets go to heaven when they die? Will you meet them again?

Hmm early Christians could believe in reincarnation, which solves many problems for you, I'd imagine. Have you heard of the great church father Origen? Later declared a heretic.
He believed:
"all the fallen minds, including Satan, must be restored—in other words, he insisted on universal salvation, but worked out across many lifetimes and successive worlds—in other words, reincarnation. In the end, the apokatastasis, the last to be saved will be Satan. “Satan” is simply the name we give to the mind that fell furthest, the mind most stubbornly entrenched in sin and ignorance."
hds.harvard.edu/news/2019/03/19/flesh-and-fire-reincarnation-and-universal-salvation-early-church

Well my belief is you will meet them again as both your “energies” will be reabsorbed into The All but you won’t be taking Fido for a walk.

It’s interesting that you pick those verses - I see a lot of meaning in there regarding transmutation - the verses are full of very beautiful symbolism.

But I’m sorry I’m not 100% sure what you’re asking

We can only speculate, given that it's not directly addressed in the Bible.
What we do know is that God holds the life of every living thing and animals have the 'breath of life'. On their death, this breath returns to Creator God. He holds the 'blueprint' for them all. I can't say for sure whether or not animals have souls, so the question of pets being in Heaven is a tricky one. However, there will definitely be animals on the newly recreated earth:

"The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.
The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:6-9
I don't see why this couldn't include our beloved pets and it's my firm hope that it will.

You know you don't have to be a Christian or follow the 10 Commandments to be a good person, right? I'm as atheist as they come and I consider it my duty as a human to give back to my community and show gratitude and humility whilst retaining a self knowledge and openness with the people around me. Or do I need to vow not to covet my neighbour's wife or ass or whatever it is to qualify as a good person?

What we do know is that God holds the life of every living thing

And this is what annoys me, opinion stated as fact. 'We' do not know any such thing. Someone may think this is the case, as is their right to think what they like. Holier than thou attitude as I said upthread.

Bit as Christian’s (or any other religion) believe something is true, they’re likely to say they know something. It’s a bit like when others say “there is no God” that’s just a belief too. 99% of what we say is a belief when we think about it,

Well, exactly. That’s adult ethics, behaving well without a supernatural carrot and stick of Heaven/hellfire.

As I have been heard to say many times: the opposite of faith is not doubt; it's certainty!

"...your form of religion..." 😂

Thanks to those who've offered interesting, time-tested debate on this thread: it's been fascinating. However, it's now becoming a bit 'whatever you think is faith/God/religion IS faith/God/religion, so time for me to bow out.

Why wouldn’t you be certain if whether or not other animals have souls? Humans are part of the great ape family, we are all animals. So why would we definitely have souls but perhaps not other animals?

Bit as Christian’s (or any other religion) believe something is true, they’re likely to say they know something. It’s a bit like when others say “there is no God” that’s just a belief too. 99% of what we say is a belief when we think about it,

I don't think that is true. I would never state "there is no God". I generally say "I don't believe in God" or "I need more evidence"

That is very different to Believers stating 'facts' that are not proven facts. They should really say "I believe xyz"