Will you make it to Heaven?

[Vincitveritas]

Take the quiz and see!

jesusplusnothing.com/the-heaven-test

@pointythings That is a bold statement indeed.
I hate to say it, but quite a few on your list relate to the Catholic Church, which isn't a fair representation of all Christian thinking. Let's not forget what Jesus said to Martha:

"As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.” Luke 10:38-42.

This was radical thinking back then! The early Church also faced persecution for being inclusive of women. Jesus' disciples included women and they weren't just there to carry out domestic duties either.

@Parker231 Google conscious eternal torment. It's not something to be taken lightly.

@Vincitveritas did Jesus explicitly tell poor old Martha to put her feet up and listen to him, and they would all get their own sarnies then? Because if not then he was just condoning shirking.

And yes, many of those are explicitly aimed at the Catholic Church. They are things that offend me, because the oppression of women offends me. If the Catholic Church wants my respect, they need to pull their socks up and look at other branches at Christianity which do better.

'Being inclusive of women' is meaningless when there are roles and purposes women are barred from just because they are women.

@Vincitveritas

your comment doesn’t make any sense to a non believer. It’s believers who should be worried

Well, I would rather live 100 years ago, in fact I have a secret desire to run away and join a lovely quiet Amish community. 😁

Back when women couldn't vote and were considered subservient to men, homosexuality was illegal, racist discrimination was legal and people could be imprisoned for blasphemy. The good old days.

@Vincitveritas once again you tell us we should fear your god because if we do not aspire to being perfect in his eyes, he will send us for eternal torment.

I call that abuse. You are encouraging us to worship an abuser. It's hideous.

I wonder if church leaders will go straight to hell for refusing to conduct same sex marriages?

@Parker231 and @pointythings I do respect you, it's because of that respect that I say these things. I'm not using it as a scare tactic, there's no benefit to me personally whether or not you choose to listen. Here's a few examples of some biblical reasoning behind it (I'm not suggesting any of you are wicked by the way):

"When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood."
Ezekiel 3:18.

"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
"‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’" Luke 16:19-31.

@Vincitveritas that's interesting, that Christians co-opted the concept of Hell from the ancient Greeks. Nothing new under the sun.

I will not live in fear of a god who is incapable of unconditional love for his creation. If I am capable of unconditional love for my children, I am better than he is.

65-85%, not bad given that I continually fail
to submit to the authority of God. It does concede that I’m a nice person.

Not much point making quotes from the Bible to a non believer - even biblical scholars question whether it was fact or fiction.

No wonder church numbers are dropping so much with scare tactics of going to hell if you don’t cooperate.

I agree with @Parker231 - Bible quotes are not 'reasons'. They are stories.

@ShodanLives No, the good bits like not being tied to an infuriating little black box all day! I'd like nice clean water, modern medicine and flushing toilets though, so...

@Parker231 What are believers to be afraid of? I don't agree with your second post at all.

@pointythings The question is - where did the Ancient Greeks get their knowledge from? They were well known for consulting with spirit entities through oracles and divination.
We aren't perfect, God knows that, it's why Jesus chose to die for the whole of humanity. It's a free gift, offered to all - to be restored to a full and loving relationship with God.

@Vincitveritas if you want to join an Amish community the're right there in Pennsylvania...

As for the ancient Greek oracles - you do know that many of them got their visions from inhaling toxic volcanic gases? They tended not to live very long, but that was OK because they could always get another gullible young woman to take over.

Other forms of divination, such as using the innards of animals, were carefully kept secret so that the religious groups involved could interpret them any way they wanted.

Yes, I'm an across the board non believer.

@Parker231 & @pointythings

You might consider the Bible a collection of fairy tales. Some scholars and dare I say it, even some Christians are of the same thinking - but I and many others are not. I'm trying to show you where these ideas stem from. It wasn't my intention to bring up the subject of Hell at all, other posters have done that, as predicted.

Given recent DNA analysis it is likely that the ancient Greeks got their ideas from Mesopotamia etc via the Minoans.

Of course there were massive advancements in Greek philosophy, coupled with the cultural integration of ideas across the Hellenistic empire in the 4th century BC onwards.

@pointythings

I did know that, yes and 9 times out of 10 they were probably just off their faces, poor loves. A spirit medium somewhere said these things are like leaving your front door open at night - first few times nothing much happens. Next couple of nights, a friendly neighbour might pop by to check you're okay. Sooner or later however, someone far less savoury, like a thief or murderer will pay you a visit and it won't turn out too well.

Yes, I'm an across the board non believer.

As is your right, I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head.

@OMG12 Glad you stopped by. I'm not even going to get into where I think the Minoans et al got their information from! I think it's too 'out there' for our mumsnet posters.

No, the good bits like not being tied to an infuriating little black box all day! I'd like nice clean water, modern medicine and flushing toilets though, so...

So think things in the past when people were persecuted (often by the church and by Christians) were better because you didn't have the option of buying a smartphone?

I doubt the creators of the quiz would agree, given some of the more unpleasant articles on that website.

@OMG12 it just goes to show there's really nothing new under the sun, and all religious traditions are built on ideas, concepts and principles from preceding religious traditions. DD1's degree is in Ancient History and she did some fascinating work tracing back Roman deities to sources going much, much further back.

@Vincitveritas I really should thank you, because this thread has done a great deal to help me clarify where my atheism comes from and why it is right for me.

It’s strange, I’ve had quite a few, mystical experiences (no drugs involved). As you know, I devote a lot of my time to what you might call occult practices.

what I’ve come to understand more and more is that true understanding is Norma for this life.

There are various maps which exist to navigate a life’s purpose. The important thing is finding the one thats right for you. It’s no good offering directions from your map to someone else using a different map to navigate life, however pure the intent. Instead it’s good to help them if asked by assisting them with navigating from their own map.

The light is different things to different people, and I think that’s important, for some it might be material, to others it might be love, to others it might be peace to some it might be a god. Everyone has something to learn from that journey and we all have something to learn from helping others in their path.

love is love, it matters little why it’s being expressed it is the act of loving that is important.

eventually there will come a time for us all where we have to choose whether to sacrifice ourselves for a higher purpose, whatever that may be, whether it be earthly or spiritual- but that conversation is really between ourselves and God or the higher part of ourself.

Hell is created whenever we separate ourselves from our true purpose and nature.

Not achievable- not Norma (although she could hold the key of course)😂😂😂

@OMG12 I did wonder😆I'll read your post again when I can give it the proper attention. Always food for thought.

@pointythings I'm glad I could help in some way!

@ShodanLives Now you're just nit picking. You appear to be suggesting that all the problems in the past were caused by a homogeneous group you call 'Christians', which is ridiculous.

Adding to my earlier reply to Parker231 and pointythings, a quote by Baptist Preacher Charles Spurgeon:

"…if sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies, and if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees…".

Now you're just nit picking. You appear to be suggesting that all the problems in the past were caused by a homogeneous group you call 'Christians', which is ridiculous.

I'm saying nothing of the sort, just questioning your assertion that things were better in the past and that we're going down some kind of dangerous path.