Will you make it to Heaven?

[Vincitveritas]

Take the quiz and see!

jesusplusnothing.com/the-heaven-test

@Vincitveritas you may be very intelligent and well read, but all that knowledge has come from humans, it's only some humans that presume it was from god, but we can only believe that if we believe the eg Bible etc, but as that is written by human's then it's all human knowledge until the being almighty says their true philosophy

@speakout it wasn't @Parker231 who called you disrespectful, it was OP.

I agree with you on the topic of the Christian God as an abusive spouse. The whole thing with the apple, poor old Job; a hideous being unworthy of repect in every way.

Thanks for clarifying pointythings my mistake.

@OldTinHat Yikes!

@OMG12 You're correct, there's a lot of different interpretations but some more wild that straying away from the original text that all meaning and truth is lost. I enjoy watching YouTube, some videos can be very informative, although one the other night tried to tell me dear Barry Gibb had shuffled off this mortal coil when he's obviously perfectly alive.😄

@Hawkins003 Yes, that's true and I honestly believe that is exactly what's going to happen any day now. The King is coming!

@speakout & @pointythings
I do take it personally when Christianity/Jesus/God/the Bible etc is critiqued so harshly - it's so much a part of who I am that it feels like it equates to the same thing. Sadly it seems you've both firmly made your minds up and nothing I can say will persuade you otherwise. I still hope we can all meet up beyond the pearly gates one day.

@StopStartStop Have you heard of Ian McCormack? His NDE has some fascinating similarities to yours:

@Vincitveritas if you come on here with a quiz that tells us we must submit to an abusive deity or be doomed forever, you should not be surprised when that position comes in for some tough words. The bottom line is that you don't know any of this, you just believe it. It is no more and no less than a belief, and presenting it as certainty comes across as incredibly arrogant. You keep asking us 'what if you're wrong?' - but that question could equally be asked of you. What you think you know is no more and no less valid than what we think we know, and so your god does not get to lecture us on how we live our lives.

The god you are selling also doesn't come across at all well. Let's face it, if you look at the range of faiths across the world, better ones are available.

@Vincitveritas then the problem would be is what if the supreme being says all of the human religions are wrong?

I think you're being rude - if you haven't got anything constructive to say, please move along

You're the one making threatening comments about hell.

I think to accept one religion provides the answer you have to accept all religions provide an answer - each is equally believed by its followers in its space and time.

we can search for universal truths in them, accept that the multitude of wrappers are man made. That actually they are all a reflection of what is within.

it might be the Christian

The kingdom of god is within

on Earth as it is in heaven

or the Hermetic

as above so below, as within so without.

the Blakean

jesus Christ is the only God and so am I and so are you.

The story is the vehicle to deliver the moral

@Parker231 Not my world, not my rules.

@pointythings I started a thread with a Christian theme, on the topic of Heaven. It shouldn't come as a surprised when I start talking about things from a Christian perspective. All the 'do what thou wilt' and relativism is leading society down a dangerous path and away from God. It's the duty of Christians to highlight that and warn people - if that comes across as arrogant, then so be it.

@Hawkins003 Is this about the aliens again? In some ways Jesus disapproved of man made, man-centric organised religion so maybe that's a possibility!

@AnorLondo I wasn't threatening anyone, the subject came up so I addressed it. This thread is supposed to be about Heaven.

So despite the fact I am a manky haver of sexual impulses and I don’t personally believe Jesus is my saviour it looks like my chances of going to Heaven are solid (75-85%). Boosted by kindness to my parents and not being prone to theft. I’m also 77% Pagan. That surely proves something…

As Jesus famously said,
Be excellent to each other 🤘

All the 'do what thou wilt' and relativism is leading society down a dangerous path and away from God.

You say that like its a bad thing. I'd rather live now than 50-100 years ago.

i’m Assuming you’re referencing Thelema with “do what thou wilt” rather than Rabelais? Just to clarify Will is a persons purpose and the statement do what thou wilt means to find your purpose and live it. It should also be remembered that it is followed by “love is the law, love under will”.

But anyway…. Why is it the duty of Christian’s to highlight and warn people. Surely that’s just imposing your will on others? Why the concern that others must feel the same way as you? Surely being happy and peaceful with your own knowledge of God is enough, why the desire to get others to comply?

I can't see any reason to accept the existance of god.

The bible is a mish mash of weird, strange rules- don't wear garments with mixed fibres, dangerous rules - women must shut up and do as they are told.
The bible supports slavery physical abuse and murder.

Christians usually try to hide the old testament in favour of the " new covenant" of the new testament because they know how grusesome it is- but the old testament is crucial to the mechanism of creation, the fall of man, and the redemption.
The new testament is a bit less grusesome, but has nothing new or interesting to say that is useful.
Although humans are prone to squabbles and battles from time to time there are plenty peaceful places and communities.
It doesn't take a sociologist or a god to figure out why peaceful places exist.
Usually because people are altruistic, don't pinch each others stuff, don't kill each other, do mutual favours.
Altruistic behaviour can be seen in communities of apes, wolves, elephants, bees and ants.
At best the bible is an observational document- be good to others and we all get along.
No shit sherlock.

@Vincitveritas Yes, I've known about Ian MacCormack for a while, taught his story in my lessons and including him in my teaching materials. He had a much 'bigger' experience than me, and possibly more challenging. Mine was all positive.

Agree with this so hard. What I see right now in parts of the US utterly negates the idea of Christianity as a universal force for good.

This 'dangerous path' has made the lives of millions of people immeasurably better and safer. Most of them are women.

I always like the following quote from Manly P Hall
“Each person must discover his own philosophy of life, and it is not fair or right to impose our codes upon others. It is also our responsibility, however, to share, one with another, such experiences as may have common value.”

We should talk about our beliefs in case they help others but we shouldn’t expect anyone to share those beliefs let alone try a dictate what these should be. As he also said

”there are as many religions as there are believers.”

Pressed post too soon, and I think there lies the rub, do you have a duty to highlight beliefs, yes probably, others might take something from this for themselves. do you have a duty to warn people, well no, that is crossing the line on imposing your belief system and values on another which might be contrary to their own philosophy. To do so is to invite discord where St Francis said you should be sowing harmony.

Luke 17:21 states “The kingdom of God is within you” think what that means in the context of forcing views on others

I scored 85-99 and I dont think I'm very good at all. I think there is such a thing as sin.

Do you ever look and lust after the opposite sex? (Jesus said this was committing adultery in your heart)

The opposite sex? Nope, I'm in the clear there. 😉

@Rinkydinkydoodle As I said up thread, I'm afraid even if you passed with full marks (not possible) having faith in Jesus is the only way to Salvation. Great film btw!

@ShodanLives Well, I would rather live 100 years ago, in fact I have a secret desire to run away and join a lovely quiet Amish community. 😁

@speakout Those things are not condoned in the Bible - documented and at times regulated, but not condoned. You seek to blame Christianity for a whole host of evils but that's a really narrow view. Most Muslims are not Jihadi extremists in the same way most Christians are not chomping at the bit to burn witches.

@StopStartStop Yes, Ian does say that at the time he was an atheist and living a hedonistic lifestyle which would explain the negative aspects. He came out the other side a completely changed man.

@OMG12 I'll have to get back to you, I'd like to spend some time on your thoughts.

@pointythings I guess we're talking abortion rights here?
Going back to your earlier post; no I have no definitive, concrete proof of what I believe. If I'm wrong about it all then no harm done, I'll just slip into oblivion when the time comes and know nothing else about it. I think it's fair to say that the same can't be said of atheists if I'm correct.

@Viviennemary That sounds promising, do you have a faith?

@Avalavalanche Well spotted!

@Vincitveritas it really isn't just abortion rights. It's about being able to walk away from a marriage that isn't working, it's about women being able to be priests, it's about women being able to choose how many children they have and when, i.e. contraception that isn't just the rhythm method. It's about women having the same right to speak out and have their voice heard as men - and not in the complementarian sense.

If your god condemns me for not believing in him in the event that I am wrong in my beliefs and that is all it takes, then he doesn't deserve my respect, or anyone else's. If god is incapable of unconditional love then there are many human beings who are far better than he is.

Why can’t the same be said of us atheists?

@Parker231 because according to OP if we do not believe and turn out to have been wrong about the existence of god, we are All Going To Hell. It really makes me sad that believers feel the need to resort to these kind of tactics instead of just respecting us.

Although I don’t believe in heaven or hell - they are just scare tactics, I would have expected believers to go to hell for supporting organised religions which are regularly in the news for actions such as sexual abuse.

@Parker231 agreed, not to mention the excommunication of a 9 year old for having an abortion - that means basically the whole leadership is toast.