Will you make it to Heaven?

[Vincitveritas]

Take the quiz and see!

jesusplusnothing.com/the-heaven-test

No that was your brain deoxygenating.

Many christians think that simply by being born we have sinned.
That we all carry the burden of original sin.
And then they invent a load of new sins.
Fornication, homosexuality, masturbation, thinking lustful thoughts, not respecting your parents, not observing the sabbath.

It’s a very sad person who thinks anyone has sinned by being born. Babies are totally innocent.

Most people don’t sin throughout their life.

Most people don’t sin throughout their life

I agree. Most people don't "sin" ( I really dislike that term anyway), most people are perfectly capable of following altrustic social norms- without having to resort to a rule book. Plenty other animals have worked it out without a manual- elephants, wolves, other primates, dolphins, ants bees...

But according to christian rules we are all sinners, not one of us is free of sin.
But their rules are warped, flavoured with bigotry and misogyny.

I am guessing most of us here have had or are having sex outside of marriage.
Doesn't make you a sinner or a bad person in my book- but to the church you are.

Thing is that sin is kind of essential to their business model. Make up some nonsensical rules about imaginary wrongs, scare people about the imaginary consequences and boom! Full pews. Make it so that even the most loving, caring, generous people believe they are inherently bad and you have a customer base forever.

Now that people are generally literate the model doesn't work so well any more.

pointythings I agree.

It's mass scale gaslighting.

"Look how broken you are ( according to my rules)- just stick with me and I'll fix things"

Or worse-
"Love me or I will lock you in the garage and set fire to it- your decision".

If god was someone's husband we would be suggesting they run.

How can you be so certain?

Science.

And which peer relieved scientific paper has conclusively proved causation rather than correlation here? I’m not talking about theories, probability or possibility, I’m talking 100% proof that removes any possibility of any supernatural involvement.

saying “science” is the least scientific answer you could possibly provide,

Near death experiences are so fascinating - and cheeringly, they tend to be moments of incredible peace and happiness.

This is quite a good article I've found on the subject.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/07/the-space-between-life-and-death

Maybe we'll explain them scientifically one day but it's difficult to imagine how you would account for someone being able to accurately describe things that happened in another location while they were in a state of deep unconsciousness. In any case, there's room for a sense of wonder whatever you think the cause is.

it really upsets me to see it being used as a tool of abuse.

@Mustardseed86 I really think you're being disingenuous now and this comment is incredibly offensive.

I don’t think anyone can tell anyone else the right interpretation for them.

@OMG12 Except that there is a right and a wrong interpretation in this case.

Most people do the right things in their lives - I don’t know anyone who would be classed as a sinner.

@Parker231 Wow, you quoted my mega post! As Speakout rightly said, according to the Christian faith we are all born 'sinners' it's not about what we might have done or not done.

@Vincitveritas - I’ve no issues if you want to be classed as born a sinner but I wasn’t nor my DH and DC’s - doesn’t apply to us non believers.

@Parker231 Why not?

We’re not sinners as we haven’t done anything wrong. We don’t need a religion to tell us how to live our lives or what is right and wrong.

@Parker231 Not according to the God who created you.

As I have said previously we don’t believe in imaginary gods so I can say 100% that your god had no part in my creation.
Your beliefs are what gives religion such a bad name - no acceptance of other people’s opinions and you support tactics like threatening people with hell as a consequence of their actions.

@Parker231 As I've said before it's not a 'tactic', it is literally what will happen according to the Bible. I am also 100% sure of this - so, who is correct??

The Bible is a book of stories written by a number of different people - some may be true and others definitely not.

It’s not the version of creation I believe in. I’ll stick with the scientific version.
It is a tactic when mentioning hell - it’s used to scare people into compliance. Churches are discriminatory (as I have mentioned earlier but you avoided) - they don’t support same sex church marriages or a womens right to make decisions about her own body.

Actually, I don’t agree that there is a right and wrong interpretation, each person might have a right and wrong interpretation for them, but really that’s as far as it goes.

I guess if I were to put myself in your position, I would be asking myself why I felt the need to force my interpretation on others when even other Christian’s have other interpretations. Is this about your ego? Because that’s normally where people think their world view is the correct one.

if you’re happy with your path great, I’m always pleased when someone finds their way. But there’s a level of arrogance to think out of the billions of people who have existed you happen to have found the only path. I think, unfortunately, to a certain extent we by you are hiding the true light within Christianity. Even if there is one right and one wrong way, what’s to say your version is it?

one thing I have learned about all faiths is that there is never a single interpretation

@OMG12 exactly this. OP believes her interpretation is the only correct one, but there are so many, even among Christian scholars. The arrogance is astounding. I readily admit that I don't and can't know with any certainty; I believe in something that keeps me sane in a world that isn't. And that is all it is: belief. This is what OP doesn't understand.

You get comfort and joy from the idea that everyone who doesn't follow your religion will suffer for all Eternity? Fine, whatever. But you can't come on here and claim that you are 100% right about everything and be surprised that pther people don't like that. Not sure if arrogance is a 'sin' but it's certainly not a virtue.

Exactly- even if you are certain for yourself, as soon as someone else is involved it becomes a belief. I don’t mind sharing my understanding as much as I can, who knows a small part might help someone else but my views might not be true for anyone else. If I hear something from someone else that is the opportunity for me to grow, to test my understanding if it should that be adapted and developed now I have this new information, life is a journey, it is growth, otherwise what’s the point?

Jesus said “Love one another as I have loved you” and how did Jesus love? He loved the prostitute, the blind and the lame, the people who killed him. His love wasn’t saved for those who worshipped him, those who were like him. He did not think himself above others and washed their feet. We cannot be humble force feeding others our spiritual views. We should love others for who they are.

It’s is vanity linked to pride. It is a sin and The Bible has a lot to say on the matter

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-vanity.html

Nothing I have read on this thread is going to convert me from being 100% non believer. Always interesting to hear other people’s opinions even when I think they are ridiculous!
I’ve an analytical background and deal in facts- very black and white!

I think all you can ever do is be true to your own beliefs. It’s not for others to try and change them, nor look to others to validate them. But everyone should respect others insofar as they respect you. That creates balance between all of us, whatever beliefs we hold.

where others seek to lead you by the nose or drive you to their pen using whips you need to stand fast. we each walk our own path and our desire for company should never cause others to stray from theirs.