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Original poster

Would you pray for someone who asked you not to?

313 replies

AchillesPoirot · 05/04/2022 09:32

Prompted by another thread.

If you are of a faith, and you said to someone you’d pray for them, and they asked you not to, would you still do it?

For honesty sake. I have no faith and find it offensive if I’ve asked someone not to pray for me that they do so.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:44

When I say I do not consent they stop.

Not entirely true. That is a process too. I know, as I have declined certain treatments.

Soultrader · 23/04/2022 09:45

It is, isn't it? Curious, and something I've thought about before. My thinking is that it is so circumstances line up in just the right way to give optimum opportunity for a change of heart

You're still praying in order to feel that you have influence over someone else's belief system. You are praying to god to intervene and bring this person back to the flock. But you also said nobody can enforce beliefs. Either you believe you can pray to influence someone else's beliefs or you don't. If you believe in the power of prayer, surely the reason to pray is because you believe something might happen as a result. Just to get this right, you believe if you pray that someone converts to Christianity and they do, your prayer has been answered and therefore you believe you had influence over that by the power of prayer?

So confused.

Life is a lot simpler when you just live and let live.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 09:45

As soon as I say I do not consent they MUST legally stop.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:48

Basically, it was up to me to demonstrate I had given my 'informed consent'.

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:49

Life is a lot simpler when you just live and let live.

But then you would just not have to care about other people. It's a very simple prayer. Doesn't have to be many words at all.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 09:49

That's not correct. They've treated you really badly. As soon as you say you no longer consent they must stop.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:53

Just to get this right, you believe if you pray that someone converts to Christianity and they do, your prayer has been answered and therefore you believe you had influence over that by the power of prayer?

Influence is not control. Everything in the environment of our life can influence our decisions but we have freedom, ultimately, to decide how to act on the information presented to us.

Soultrader · 23/04/2022 09:55

But then you would just not have to care about other people. It's a very simple prayer. Doesn't have to be many words at all

I care very much about other people. You don't have to be christian to have a monopoly on caring about other people. I just don't feel i have the right to influence other people's thoughts about their private belief systems. Id say that being comfortable with other people's right to choose what they believe in is far more caring than trying to convert them. Its really not about the effort involved in the prayer. Its about your belief that you praying might have an effect on that person, and the arrogance it demonstrates.

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:55

That's not correct. They've treated you really badly. As soon as you say you no longer consent they must stop.

It's what happens. I've read enough health policies to know this. It was ok, I demonstrated my informed consent successfully enough.

Soultrader · 23/04/2022 09:55

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:53

Just to get this right, you believe if you pray that someone converts to Christianity and they do, your prayer has been answered and therefore you believe you had influence over that by the power of prayer?

Influence is not control. Everything in the environment of our life can influence our decisions but we have freedom, ultimately, to decide how to act on the information presented to us.

Is that a yes? You believe you will have influenced that person?

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 09:56

Legally they broke the law if you withdrew consent and they carried on. I'm so sorry they did that to you.

Demonstrating informed consent is different. That's why you sign consent forms.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:59

I care very much about other people. You don't have to be christian to have a monopoly on caring about other people. I just don't feel i have the right to influence other people's thoughts about their private belief systems. Id say that being comfortable with other people's right to choose what they believe in is far more caring than trying to convert them. Its really not about the effort involved in the prayer. Its about your belief that you praying might have an effect on that person, and the arrogance it demonstrates.

Didn't say you didn't care. But just having a simple conversation means you have the potential to influence a decision. Your actions can influence a decision. You being present or not can influence a decision. We all have influence. People still have influence beyond the grave. Memory and collective memory influences. Society influences. No one is truly alone. We have more bacteria living on us than our own human cells which influence us. Even potentially our brain chemistry and thoughts!

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:02

Demonstrating informed consent is different. That's why you sign consent forms.

Once you initially consent, which covers a raft of treatment, withdrawing that consent is a process. You have to demonstrate the withdrawal of consent is informed. They are obliged to check. For example, look at how consent is assumed for screening.

Soultrader · 23/04/2022 10:02

The difference with medical consent is that doctors are supposed to do no harm. People can do as much harm as they want in the name of religion. Abuse children, take babies off unwed mothers and incarcerate the women, murder millions of indigenous people, steal land, start wars. Abuse people using their religion as a weapon in prayer groups. All in the name of god.

Not many doctors can get away with all that.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 10:03

Consent is not assumed for screening. You are wrong.

OP posts:
Soultrader · 23/04/2022 10:04

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 09:49

Life is a lot simpler when you just live and let live.

But then you would just not have to care about other people. It's a very simple prayer. Doesn't have to be many words at all.

You literally said if you live and let live it means you don't care.

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:04

People can do as much harm as they want in the name of religion. Abuse children, take babies off unwed mothers and incarcerate the women, murder millions of indigenous people, steal land, start wars. Abuse people using their religion as a weapon in prayer groups. All in the name of god.

They can't according to my beliefs.

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:06

Consent is not assumed for screening. You are wrong.

I get what you mean here but look up how to withdraw from it. It's a (lengthy) process.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 10:06

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:04

People can do as much harm as they want in the name of religion. Abuse children, take babies off unwed mothers and incarcerate the women, murder millions of indigenous people, steal land, start wars. Abuse people using their religion as a weapon in prayer groups. All in the name of god.

They can't according to my beliefs.

But those who are praying for me ARE harming me.

And yet you've said you would continue to pray. Knowing you're harming me.

That's hypocritical.

OP posts:
Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 10:06

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:06

Consent is not assumed for screening. You are wrong.

I get what you mean here but look up how to withdraw from it. It's a (lengthy) process.

I don't need to look it up thank you.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:07

What is the bit of you which is harmed by praying, op?

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 10:08

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:07

What is the bit of you which is harmed by praying, op?

Maybe read my posts? They have explained exactly what is being done and the impact it is having on me.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:10

I have read your posts, op. But I don't really get what bit of you the praying has harmed. So rather than guess I have asked you.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 23/04/2022 10:11

hihellohihello · 23/04/2022 10:10

I have read your posts, op. But I don't really get what bit of you the praying has harmed. So rather than guess I have asked you.

It has traumatised me. Compounded the abuse I have already suffered and carried it on. It has impacted my mental health.

I am in therapy. I take medication to manage the ptsd I have been left with.

Is that clear enough for you?

OP posts:
Soultrader · 23/04/2022 10:11

Hihello as you're very keen on consent, would you still pray for someone even if they expressly said they don't consent?

Really you should only be praying for people who have expressly given consent. Not because of what it means to them but because of what it means to you.