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Original poster

Would you pray for someone who asked you not to?

313 replies

AchillesPoirot · 05/04/2022 09:32

Prompted by another thread.

If you are of a faith, and you said to someone you’d pray for them, and they asked you not to, would you still do it?

For honesty sake. I have no faith and find it offensive if I’ve asked someone not to pray for me that they do so.

OP posts:
Soultrader · 22/04/2022 08:51

But to be violated by someone else's thoughts made in kindness seems an unusual response

Its not just thoughts though and it doesn't sound like there's anything kind about it. Its a bunch of people getting together on a regular basis to pray (talk) about her life choices. Not too dissimilar to if a bunch of people continually got together regularly to talk about what an awful person you are and judge your life choices without you being present to defend yourself, before coming back to tell you what was said. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel violated by being verbally attacked by a group of people behind your back, the same as you would if you had a group of friends that was regularly getting together to bitch about you for having a baby out of wedlock, for example. It doesn't make it any better because it's religious.

In fact i think it makes it worse - since people are still replying and saying "but it's only praying, it's done from a place of love, how can she possibly object to that?" It makes her sound like she's overreacting and crazy. Because other people pray with love it doesn't also mean it can't be done from a place of control and hate. Kissing can be done with love. It can also be done from a place of control and hate. And people will say "but it was just a kiss".

Its not at all the same as someone quietly praying in their own head and never mentioning it to the person who they are praying about, who will never therefore be any the wiser.

steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:52

AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:44

@hihellohihello

But this is opening in a group meeting 'Oh Lord save Achilles from her sinful ways'

Well, it would be far more appropriate to pray '...save us all' ! Since nobody is perfect! Why not think big!!!😁

What's funny about it?

Achilles, I don;t think 'hello' was laughing at you or your situation. More at the idea that the group should pray that for anyone, when we are all basically not perfect.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:56

Because other people pray with love it doesn't also mean it can't be done from a place of control and hate. Kissing can be done with love. It can also be done from a place of control and hate. And people will say "but it was just a kiss".

Yes, but also unrequited love can be very difficult too. Does not excuse violation but it is something that people will struggle with and feel hurt by.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:58

Unrequited love can be hard too? What on earth.

So are you advocating forced religion. Because that is what evangelical churches are commanded by god to do? And because they love me I have to realise how hard it is for them that I've said no?

That ABSOLUTELY is a consent violation.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 09:05

Unrequited love can be hard too? What on earth.

So are you advocating forced religion. Because that is what evangelical churches are commanded by god to do? And because they love me I have to realise how hard it is for them that I've said no?

That ABSOLUTELY is a consent violation.

No, trying to get people to understand the nuance. Belief and Faith is a choice and cannot be forced, however it will be hard for them to feel like they are 'losing you' from their perspective according to what they believe.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:06

They aren't losing me.

I never belonged to them in the first place.

You really don't get it at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:07

@hihellohihello can you stop please. You're really upsetting me.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 09:07

I said from their perspective.

It is possible to sympathise even empathise without agreeing with.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 09:07

What is it that upsets you?

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:08

Can you please stop trying to force their viewpoint on me. It's upsetting. And minimising. And diminishes my trauma.

OP posts:
Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:09

Can you just PLEASE stop.

It is triggering me. For goodness sake.

I don't owe you any answers. Stop hounding me. Stop pushing their view. Just stop.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 09:09

Do you expect my complete unity with your point of view? I sympathise and empathise but do not fully agree.🤷‍♀️ We are different people with different life experiences it is to be expected.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:10

You have been asked repeatedly by me to stop.

Why can't you respect that?

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 09:12

Like you respect me?

MarriedThreeChildren · 22/04/2022 09:13

@AchillesPoirot I think I get it.

Its not the praying that is an issue. It’s the fact they are disregarding your feelings around religion/being prayed for etc… It’s the subject of the prayer etc….

It sounds like these are people who overstep boundaries in other subjects too and disregard you and your requests on a regular basis. The prayers being only one of the times it’s happening.

fwiw on a personal level.
if someone was saying they are praying for me, I couldn’t care less because I’m not religious in that way. I’d there is no god, why would I be upset if someone is sending a message to someone (something?) that doesn’t exist?

if the prayers were a way to get at me (like ‘pray because she has sinned when she did A and B), then I WOULD mind. Because it’s not a prayer, it’s an underhand attack of who I am or how I live iyswim. It’s judgemental and asking for others to judge me too.

Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:14

This is my support thread.

I've asked you to stop housing me and stop telling me that these people need my sympathy because it's hard for them.

I haven't disrespected you in any way.

I have asked you to STOP because you are triggering me.

You have ignored that request. That is disrespectful.

OP posts:
Original poster
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 09:14

*hounding

OP posts:
MarriedThreeChildren · 22/04/2022 09:16

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:56

Because other people pray with love it doesn't also mean it can't be done from a place of control and hate. Kissing can be done with love. It can also be done from a place of control and hate. And people will say "but it was just a kiss".

Yes, but also unrequited love can be very difficult too. Does not excuse violation but it is something that people will struggle with and feel hurt by.

I have to say I agree with @AchillesPoirot there.

There is no ‘unrequited love can be hard to accept’.
if someone doesn’t want that love, they don’t and no one is allowed to impose it on anyone. Ever.

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 09:24

Yes, but also unrequited love can be very difficult too. Does not excuse violation but it is something that people will struggle with and feel hurt by

Sounds like something people say about abusers when a man attacks a woman who tries to leave. "it's not his fault, he just really really loved her".

Nope.

You don't get to abuse people because you "love" them.

ClinkeyMonkey · 22/04/2022 09:54

Having read the updates, I do see where the OP is coming from. If someone prays for you in private, you will likely never know, so it's a moot point, even if you think it's wrong. But this appears to be a group of people who have taken it upon themselves to be the OP's spiritual saviours. They are, effectively, gossiping about her life choices. Except they aren't doing it in hushed tones behind her back, but boldly and in plain sight, using concern about her soul as an excuse to judge her. I do think that's disrespectful.

As I mentioned before, I'm in NI where this type of behaviour is very common. I know plenty of Christians who just get on with their lives, including a very good friend of mine, who may or may not pray for me. I have no idea. She's a Christian and I'm an atheist and we rub along just fine without pissing each other off. But I do know a LOT of people, particularly in the community where I live, whose whole lives are centred on their local church. They live in an echo chamber and think it is completely acceptable, indeed imperative, to discuss the 'state' of someone's soul and to pray for them and fret over them.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 10:40

Sounds like something people say about abusers when a man attacks a woman who tries to leave. "it's not his fault, he just really really loved her".

Nope.

You don't get to abuse people because you "love" them.

I agree, my point was certainly not that you do get to! Of course it's not permissible to abuse people because you love them! I just can see how people can go wrong that is all. Unrequited love is difficult but something people must learn to cope with otherwise it can turn to dysfunctional and abusive behaviours.

This is where the nuance is important. It is possible to sympathise and even empathise with someone you know is in the wrong and whom you disagree with. Because other people struggle too.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 10:50

Doesn't mean that justice is not important or that people should keep in touch with those they have a dysfunctional relationship with. Just means that they can shrug their shoulders, realise life inevitably has these kind of pitfalls and brush themselves off/ move on.

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 10:59

Doesn't mean that justice is not important or that people should keep in touch with those they have a dysfunctional relationship with. Just means that they can shrug their shoulders, realise life inevitably has these kind of pitfalls and brush themselves off/ move on

Not if they've suffered trauma. Clearly there's a difficult background here that the op doesn't need to go into, which means it's a bit harsh to tell her to shrug her shoulders and move on when they're continuing to abuse her using their religion as a weapon. I've suffered ptsd as a result of harassment. I could no more have shrugged it off than i could fly to the moon. I will never forgive the person who caused my ptsd and i will certainly never empathise with them. But i have managed to find peace after loads of therapy.

Most people who haven't suffered trauma would shrug their shoulders but the fact the op can't, and that she's said you're triggering her suggests that there's something much deeper going on. Nobody should ever feel obliged to empathise with their abusers but that's what you are telling her to do.

It would be great for the op if she could move on and away from these people but no part of that journey needs to includes empathy towards the people that abuse her because they just love her so much.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 11:04

This is my support thread.

And that's what I intended with my comments. An echo chamber is not supportive (and it's not respectful to expect this from people). What you need is a friend. And, in the spirit of friendship, I will tell you cannot stop these people doing this (it's not against the law) but you can stop it hurting you.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 11:05

Most people who haven't suffered trauma would shrug their shoulders but the fact the op can't, and that she's said you're triggering her suggests that there's something much deeper going on. Nobody should ever feel obliged to empathise with their abusers but that's what you are telling her to do.

Don't assume what I have suffered. My background is eventful to say the least.