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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Would you pray for someone who asked you not to?

313 replies

AchillesPoirot · 05/04/2022 09:32

Prompted by another thread.

If you are of a faith, and you said to someone you’d pray for them, and they asked you not to, would you still do it?

For honesty sake. I have no faith and find it offensive if I’ve asked someone not to pray for me that they do so.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 22/04/2022 07:54

@AchillesPoirot I posted earlier explaining why I might pray for someone who had asked me not to- it wouldn't be deliberate, it would be a symptom of my worrying about them. The prayers would be for peace and happiness and safety for that person. I explain this, so you know mine is a faith based perspective.

I'd like to apologise for the appalling behaviour of the people who are harassing you. You are right, there is nothing beneficent about their behaviour. They are being controlling and abusive. They are stuck in patterns of behaviour they have learned, and been unable to challenge.

By moving away from them, you are demonstrating your ability to think independently and you are a living symbol of their doubts and fears.

I do think there is an element of truth in recent poster's comments- you will be happier if you complete your rejection of them and their practices by stopping thinking about it. It's irrelevant, it has no power over you, you've moved beyond that.

If you have a look at this link, you'll see they are stuck in an immature place

www.institute4learning.com/2020/06/12/the-stages-of-faith-according-to-james-w-fowler/

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:01

Do you generally have a problem with consent boundaries?

No problem at all. I accept unity is about coming together in harmony, it involves input from all parties, that is, it is not about one person simply conforming to someone or a group which self declares themselves in authority. Where unity doesn't happen I can acknowledge that, move on and apart from the discord. As the old saying goes, 'You cannot please all of the people all of the time.' I think it is important to reconcile and find peace with this fact, although we all have a longing for unity and that is good too. The law exists for justice and we can expect that but what you are talking about is outside of the law so it is something I, personally, would just work to move on from - for my own peace of mind regardless of anything else.

steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:13

I am a Christian and do believe in the power of prayer, ie that prayer does change things and I have had many examples of that in my life. If I didn't I am not sure why I would bother praying. So, yes it is more than thinking about someone or holding them in your thoughts.

I am familiar with the type of situation you are talking about OP, and have been at meetings where we pray for people in that way.
I would never pray for someone in that context who had asked me not to. In fact I would think much less of the leadership of the church if, having been asked not to, they continued to pray for specific people in that way in a group prayer meeting.

I totally understand the feeling of violation, and that they are imposing this on you.
It is a breach of consent.

The real issue though is that they do this KNOWING you have asked them not to, and continue to tell you blatantly that they are doing this and going against your wishes. This is really a form of manipulation and control. They are violating your wishes, and it amazes me that they are so insensitive that they cannot see that.

There is a tendancy in evangelical churches to be very slack around issues like this, and things get shared 'for prayer' when they should have remained confidential. Eg, I was helping a lady from church, she had found a breast lump and was going to the emergency 2 week appointment. She asked for prayer, but I had not talked to her about what she wanted to share, so in the meeting I said - urgent hospital appointment, she is very anxious. People pressed for more details and I said - I am not sure what she wants me to share, so I won't say any more. Everyone was fine with that. But in many contexts it is all shared.

Another example is someone shared about an upcoming operation their ds was having and then said - he doesn't want everyone knowing but I told him this was his church family, so they needed to know so they could pray. At the time our dd was going through something and we had deliberately only shared it with one or two close friends as she did not want everyone to know.
That breach of their child's wishes actually made me very angry and I had several conversations with leaders around this issue of our teenagers right to confidentiality and setting an example. They got it.

If there is no respect, how can we expect people to want to join us anyway? The first thing I do is respect who someone is and what their opinion is, if we then have discussions about faith, fine, if they do not want to then I must respect that too. Otherwise there is a terrible arrogance abotu assuming I am somehow better than them, and that is not how God would have us be anyway.

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 08:16

Nobody is saying you are wrong to have feelings. But I also don't think that it is wrong to pray for someone to return to God

What part of loving thy neighbor includes failing to respect their religious choices? Would you pray for a Muslim to turn to Christianity? Isn't that offensive? Why's it different to pray for an atheist to turn to Christianity?

Even though prayer means nothing to me, if you're praying that someone will turn to religion you clearly do believe that a) you have the right to an opinion on their religious beliefs and b) that through prayer you have the power to turn them to your religion. How is that not disrespectful and offensive?

The people the op knows are weaponising their religion against her. There's more than one way to feel violated and you don't get to tell her that she shouldn't feel the way she feels about this. And this is why i can't stand religion. It always seems to come very much with a holier than thou attitude. Clearly prayer doesn't always come from love. These people don't seem to love op.

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 08:19

I am familiar with the type of situation you are talking about OP, and have been at meetings where we pray for people in that way.
I would never pray for someone in that context who had asked me not to. In fact I would think much less of the leadership of the church if, having been asked not to, they continued to pray for specific people in that way in a group prayer meeting

If you go along to a meeting and your church leader says "let us pray for mavis and her gout" how would you know that Mavis had consented to that if she's not there?

AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:20

Thank you @steppemum @Soultrader you get it.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:28

I think there can be a problem with assuming a shared unity - which as I have said requires input from all parties involved. A longing for unity I think is normal (which essentially is what the prayer is about) but assuming or attempting to force it it does not achieve it. Faith and belief is a choice and cannot be forced. However, other people's faith will be observable and is in this instance (and many others currently and historically) proving difficult to ignore, that I think is another truth.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:29

@AchillesPoirot

Thank you @steppemum @Soultrader you get it.
And that's the peace unity on an issue brings.🙂
steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:31

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 08:19

I am familiar with the type of situation you are talking about OP, and have been at meetings where we pray for people in that way.
I would never pray for someone in that context who had asked me not to. In fact I would think much less of the leadership of the church if, having been asked not to, they continued to pray for specific people in that way in a group prayer meeting

If you go along to a meeting and your church leader says "let us pray for mavis and her gout" how would you know that Mavis had consented to that if she's not there?

you are right, I cannot know for sure if Mavis has consented.
It is a combination of the fact that Mavis is member of the church so I assume that she has asked for prayer, and then that I know and trust our leaders.

Prayer groups are usually small groupd of people who know each other well. So prayer requests are not usually a surprise.

In OP's case it is obvious that several of the people present know full well that she has asked them not to, and they continue. It is not as if it is a secret. This is her own family trampling on her boundaries.

AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:34

It's actually not my family.

But other than that yes

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 22/04/2022 08:35

AchillesPoirot · 05/04/2022 09:47

Because I’ve asked them not to.

It’s a consent violation. That’s what it feels like. It makes me feel anxious and sick to think that people would be praying for me behind my back even though I’ve specifically asked them not to.

I do get it, it's their assumption that they know better and that you're wrong but they'll save you anyway.
But to be violated by someone else's thoughts made in kindness seems an unusual response. People will think about you and your situation. For some that will translate into private prayer. Some will just think to the universe for I hope things improve. If you sing believe, there's no real difference between the two

AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:37

It's not kindness that is motivating them.

OP posts:
lightand · 22/04/2022 08:38

I sometimes do, and sometimes dont.
I probably wouldnt in your case, as you express it well that you wouldnt want it.

There are circumstances where I would. If someone was standing on a ledge for example, and about to jump, there is no way I would not pray.

steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:38

But the issue here is not that it is quietly in someone's thoughts is it?

The prayers are being said opening in a church prayer meeting.
I agree that you cannot police what people pray abotu privately. And as a Christian I would find it hard not to pray quietly between me and God about things.

But this is opening in a group meeting 'Oh Lord save Achilles from her sinful ways' 🙄

That is not right, and her wishes should be respected in this.

steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:40

and I agree, this is not motivated by kindness.
If it was kindness, they would care, and caring means you listen and respect.

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:41

But this is opening in a group meeting 'Oh Lord save Achilles from her sinful ways'

Well, it would be far more appropriate to pray '...save us all' ! Since nobody is perfect! Why not think big!!!😁

Soultrader · 22/04/2022 08:41

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:29

@AchillesPoirot

Thank you @steppemum @Soultrader you get it.
And that's the peace unity on an issue brings.🙂

And i did it all without religion 😉

lightand · 22/04/2022 08:42

steppemum · 22/04/2022 08:38

But the issue here is not that it is quietly in someone's thoughts is it?

The prayers are being said opening in a church prayer meeting.
I agree that you cannot police what people pray abotu privately. And as a Christian I would find it hard not to pray quietly between me and God about things.

But this is opening in a group meeting 'Oh Lord save Achilles from her sinful ways' 🙄

That is not right, and her wishes should be respected in this.

Oh. That is different if prayers in church.
Gosh no. The rights and privacy of a person need to be totally respected.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/04/2022 08:42

They are publicly in home groups praying for me and making a point of telling me that they are praying for me to come back to god. And that god will punish me for my various transgressions. sorry I missed this. Yes this does feel inappropriate.

If you don't believe then just comfort yourself they're wasting their time thinking of you whilst you're using that time to e joy life.

AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:44

@hihellohihello

But this is opening in a group meeting 'Oh Lord save Achilles from her sinful ways'

Well, it would be far more appropriate to pray '...save us all' ! Since nobody is perfect! Why not think big!!!😁

What's funny about it?
OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:45

@Soultrader

And i did it all without religion 😉
I like to point out the good stuff where I see it. 😉
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:45

My quote cut off.

What's funny about it? I really don't get what is to grin about? I'm upset. It makes me feel sick and violated. It is trampling all over my wishes. It's not a grinning matter.

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 22/04/2022 08:46

@hihellohihello why are you treating this so lightly? I find that really bizarre.

OP posts:
hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:47

@AchillesPoirot, it's the irony. 😉

hihellohihello · 22/04/2022 08:49

@AchillesPoirot

@hihellohihello why are you treating this so lightly? I find that really bizarre.
Sorry, my humour can be a bit close to the bone. I've survived a lot. Cancer, many bereavements - amongst other difficult stuff. If I didn't laugh I would cry.
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