Christianity & homophobia

[airforsharon]

Hello, can anyone enlighten me re the specific bible passages that condemn homosexuality, and if there are others that counter that position? A relative voiced quite openly homophobic views this afternoon - he is a long time church goer & very involved with his church, his faith determines a great deal in his life so i'm assuming it's behind these views.
aUnfortunately they were said at a point it was pretty impossible for me to respond, and as my bible knowledge is limited i have nothing to counter it with, from a faith perspective.
It's troubling me especially as several of my closest friends are gay men, and my oldest daughter is a lesbian (relative doesn't know this).
If you are a church goer, what is your/your churches view on the subject? Are churches generally more accepting of homosexuality now, and if not, why not?
tia

@HmmGrey just out of interest... what denomination of Christianity are you??

@HmmGrey
The left or right handed analogy is yet another example of how evil finds it’s route through mankind to cause division. It’s all a distraction from the truth. Tragically, so many have taken the word and twisted it for financial gain, to control, to persecute etc

The left/right handed analogy works though, surely? Many years ago people thought being left handed was a choice - people were being rebellious and wilful and needed to be taught what was (literally) 'right'.
Now we know better, and know that people don't choose to be left-handed.

I would agree that many have taken the word and twisted it - against women, gay people, used it to justify slavery, forgiving your abuser, starting wars, gaining financially (prosperity gospel), used it to blame people for not praying hard enough / having enough faith to 'overcome' whatever's going on in their lives. It's been used to bash people with mental health issues, keep people in poverty (Protestant work ethic / the Lord helps those who help themselves), deny climate change... oh all sorts of stuff. It's not good.

I can share the revelation I have received but you can get to know him yourself and see what He has for you personally.
I do know God personally, and I've found that when I was trying not be be gay, my relationship with God was not great, but in recent years - as I've been fully myself before and with God - it's a whole world of (much better) difference.

There are an awful lot of gay Christians out there, trying to be faithful to who God made them to be, and what God wants of them, many of whom have gone through various struggles trying to reconcile what they perceive to be their 'sinful' self with what the Bible supposedly says. We've often had to become theologians indirectly because we've looked at the clobber passages for ourselves and know them and what the various interpretations are.
Many LGBT people have left the Church, some have taken their lives because they thought they were going to hell simply for being who they were...Many others have stayed, and continue to stay in churches where we are still denied marriage, blessings of our relationships, some are denied communion, not allowed to teach Sunday school, or be in positions of leadership....yet we still stay in spite of all this.

That takes courage, and steadfastness, and belief in a God who is bigger than all of this and who loves us for who we are.

*There are no passages that trump "Love one another as I have loved you. And love your neighbour as yourself".

Jesus said the above ^^ - he never said one word against homosexuality

And the Bible is about Jesus (obviously grin) - anything else is bollocks written by man*

This.

*There are no passages that trump "Love one another as I have loved you. And love your neighbour as yourself".

Jesus said the above ^^ - he never said one word against homosexuality

And the Bible is about Jesus (obviously grin) - anything else is bollocks written by man*

This.

@Pebble21uk

Hey, I don’t belong to a denomination

@Pebble21uk

Hey, I don’t belong to a denomination

[quote HmmGrey]@Pebble21uk

Hey, I don’t belong to a denomination[/quote]
Okay, so where did you meet God, Jesus and the Bible... or did you just pick up a Bible one day and have deduced all this for yourself in isolation?

[quote HmmGrey]@Catinabeanbag

Before coming to faith, I would’ve said I was bi-curious. I’ve kissed women.

God places His desires within our hearts when we’re in relationship with Him. While we live in the flesh (under slavery sin brings), our desires are often out of alignment with God’s will for our lives. The world encourages us to believe our mind is in control but the Bible tells us it’s our heart. Everything good or bad flows from our heart.[/quote]
So same sex attraction and love don't come from the heart?

Do you think gay people should spend their whole lives never having a romantic or sexual relationship?

@Catinabeanbag

Your faith is inspiring! I appreciate your willingness to share and highlight the ways the church has failed to show Christ’s love.

As you know, the Holy Spirit is our paraclete. He guides and convicts us all personally. Your strength through and in the Lord is admirable.

@Pebble21uk

Actually that’s exactly what happened. During lockdown last year, I came to faith through the spirit. I bought a Bible, repented and received Christ. God came for me - Luke 15

@kmblark

All desires come from the heart.

Do you think gay people should spend their whole lives never having a romantic or sexual relationship?

I’ve already answered this question. Maybe you want a yes or no answer but only God can answer your question. The Lord convicts us personally. The individual takes it before God and allows him to unravel their heart.

[quote HmmGrey]@kmblark

All desires come from the heart.

Do you think gay people should spend their whole lives never having a romantic or sexual relationship?

I’ve already answered this question. Maybe you want a yes or no answer but only God can answer your question. The Lord convicts us personally. The individual takes it before God and allows him to unravel their heart.[/quote]
You haven't answered the question. I'm asking whether you think they should.

One of the reasons I left church was I couldn't agree with their stance on homosexuality, and also the role of women.
That being gay wasn't a sin in itself but having a gay relationship was sinful. And the fact that sex outside of marriage was a sin...but (at the time) there wasn't an option for same sex marriage.
They also had strong views that the man was the Head of the household and all decisions he ultimately had the final say and that within the church women were not allowed to preach or teach but were useful for creche, and making tea and coffee

[quote HmmGrey]@Pebble21uk

Actually that’s exactly what happened. During lockdown last year, I came to faith through the spirit. I bought a Bible, repented and received Christ. God came for me - Luke 15[/quote]
Sounds like you're using the bible to justify your existing prejudices.

[quote twelly]@ElectricDeChocoboIn

Voting against gay rights if that is what you believe or campaigning against something does not make someone homophobic - `I think it is very different if the comments are directed at an individual. People are allowed to have different views. I think there is a point that an opinion turns into a bigotry but holding a view and campaigning or voting in a way does not. The reason why I say this is that if we don't allow people freedom to have views then we are going down an avenue as a society where we are prescribing beliefs and opinions and whilst on this occasion we might say that is a desirable outcome we might find our own views compromised further on down the line. I firmly believe in freedom and that is why I feel that people are free to hold views and that the the "phobic " is used as a way of control which I think in the long run is not desirable for society[/quote]
Do you also think the people who believe white people are superior and campaign against rights for ethnic minorities aren't racist if they don't go around screaming at and beating up people?

I think someone who hold views that any race is superior is a racist and as I said I think any hostility towards people due to their sexuality is unacceptable . However, people are allowed their views - we don't live in a police state and therefore we have to allow people to have their views. We should be careful about name calling views simply because we don't agree with them. The word phobic is overused and in itself is often applied in a bullying way - civilised debate should not involved name calling.

@twelly

I think someone who hold views that any race is superior is a racist and as I said I think any hostility towards people due to their sexuality is unacceptable . However, people are allowed their views - we don't live in a police state and therefore we have to allow people to have their views. We should be careful about name calling views simply because we don't agree with them. The word phobic is overused and in itself is often applied in a bullying way - civilised debate should not involved name calling.

How are people who think other races are inferior but people who campaign against equal rights for gay people not homophobic? That doesn't make sense.

There is a difference because one is saying that they are superior to another group - the other is not saying that.

@twelly

There is a difference because one is saying that they are superior to another group - the other is not saying that.

If they are trying to prevent gay and bisexual people from having the same rights as straight people then surely they think gay and bi people are inferior.

Are people who campaign against equal rights for ethnic minorities not racist?

If we look at one of the pieces of legislation for example gay marriage, it is possible to disagree with this without being homophobic. Some people feel very strongly about this but they are not rude or aggressive to the gay community they just believe that marriage is between a male and female. In the UK people hold many diverse opinions - it is important that we let people voice their views. What has happened is that the cancel culture or phobic insult is used to shut down any view that someone doesn't agree with. It seems to me very easy to start hurling insults of nazi or phobic at anyone which in effect is labelling their views unpalatable to all - they might be unpalatable to some people but they aren't to all and they are entitled to them. In some ways the freedom to have a view seems to increasingly extend to certain views and certainly not to christians - who themselves are entitled to their views

@twelly

If we look at one of the pieces of legislation for example gay marriage, it is possible to disagree with this without being homophobic. Some people feel very strongly about this but they are not rude or aggressive to the gay community they just believe that marriage is between a male and female. In the UK people hold many diverse opinions - it is important that we let people voice their views. What has happened is that the cancel culture or phobic insult is used to shut down any view that someone doesn't agree with. It seems to me very easy to start hurling insults of nazi or phobic at anyone which in effect is labelling their views unpalatable to all - they might be unpalatable to some people but they aren't to all and they are entitled to them. In some ways the freedom to have a view seems to increasingly extend to certain views and certainly not to christians - who themselves are entitled to their views

If someone thinks that same-sex couples should not have the same legal rights as opposite sex couples, that is homophobic. Just like someone who thinks mixed-race couples should be allowed to get married is racist.

And it's not just same-sex marriage. Within living memory for a lot of people it was illegal for men to have sex with men, for same-sex couples to adopt children, for gay and bisexual people to serve in the military, section 28 was in force, the age of consent was not equal and homosexuality was classified as a disorder. I suppose you think that everyone who campaigned for these things to still be in place were not homophobic too.

I haven't seen anyone of this thread call anyone a nazi. Homophobic is not an insult, it is a description. You talk about freedom, like its people describing those who express homophobic views as homophobic who are trying to take freedoms away, and not those actively campaigning against other people's rights.

If we look at one of the pieces of legislation for example gay marriage, it is possible to disagree with this without being homophobic. Some people feel very strongly about this but they are not rude or aggressive to the gay community they just believe that marriage is between a male and female.
Personally I think someone trying to take away my right to get married is much worse than someone being rude.

If you don’t want gay people to have the same rights as straight then you are homophobic

Atheist raised Catholic and with a Catholic family here.

We were always told it was 'hate the sin, love the sinner' so it's not wrong to be yourself as a gay person, only to actually have sex. Doesn't make sense to me either but that's the line.

From experience, Catholic people I know are tolerant/accepting of gay people, but don't seem to get that this is at odds with what their faith says. The same as most Catholic families don't have nine children any more as they quietly ignore the teaching on contraception.

The principle is that sex is for procreation only, not primarily for pleasure as that would be sinful. As gay sex can't produce children, it's sinful, same with sex using contraception.

This is a fascinating thread to read as an atheist with relatives who hold some very fundamentalist views.

@EnidFrighten your clarification on the Catholic stance that sex is for procreation etc got me thinking …
logically I would extend that to the Catholic Church holding the view that post-menopausal women and their church-wed husbands should also refrain from such physical acts of the marriage 🤔
😂😂

@quickchangeartiste I think I remember asking about this (I was an awkward teen!) apparently you just have to be open to conception, it's supposed to be God's will whether you conceive so to use contraception to block him from creating a new baby is wrong. I don't know how it all works with hysterectomy, ovary removal etc!