Any atheists out there who are drawn to the aesthetic of church?

[Forion]

I was a Roman Catholic, but totally struggled with believing in God etc. I gave up going to church years ago, but I still love the Catholic Church, hymns, music, the buildings, prayers, incense etc. I wasn't interested in the social side of things so didn't get anything out of that.

I know some people will say that it's God trying to draw me in, but honestly, I can't believe in any of that even though I've tried I can't force myself and I don't even like other people let alone love them 😄

Anybody else experienced this?

There is a group in south London who are atheists but meet every Sunday to sing songs (and probably hymns) together. I am Jewish and observe the festivals - at the moment we are lighting candles and eating donuts - but am an atheist. We celebrate Passover every year. It’s part of our tradition and is part of the cement of our family. Funnily enough, at the last funeral I went to , when the organist struck up the second hymn ,it was only myself and the vicar who joined in . apparently the tune wasn’t the usual one for that hymn but it was the tune I learnt in school!

I've been an atheist for 40-odd years. But I love singing churchy songs, I love xmas, and particularly love cathedrals. The power of the faith of others to create such beautiful, intricate architecture takes my breath away. Just don't believe in it.

Absolutely. Word for word.

I rationalise it by saying that as I was raised in the Christian fashion from birth, going to church on sundays and days of obligation, saying prayers at night, having home visits by our Priest, attending Catholic schools, its part of who I am, even though Ive never been a believer. My formative years were spent in Churches, singing hymns and praying. It's a ritual based religeon and very powerful.Parts of it are lovely - singing, fellowship, midnight mass, readings, the incense, Church architecture, measuring the passing of time by religious feasts.

A bit of a ramble but I get what you're saying completely.

Yes. Love our stone church with the sun streaming through the windows and the incense wafting up.

It’s absolutely possible to be culturally religious without having that faith. I suppose I’m culturally high C of E. I went to a church primary school in the 60s (because it was the closest!) where we were taken to Mass every Thursday morning in an old, atmospheric, candlelit church where a lot of the service and responses were in Latin, with incense and the full works. I found it mysterious and compelling, and it’s stayed with me. I still love the mystery and spiritual uplift that kind of service brings, along with traditional hymns and church music. Just can’t quite commit to the whole deal, somehow!

This:

My formative years were spent in Churches, singing hymns and praying. It's a ritual based religeon and very powerful.Parts of it are lovely - singing, fellowship, midnight mass, readings, the incense, Church architecture, measuring the passing of time by religious feasts.

And this:

I’m culturally high C of E. I went to a church primary school in the 60s (because it was the closest!) where we were taken to Mass every Thursday morning in an old, atmospheric, candlelit church where a lot of the service and responses were in Latin, with incense and the full works. I found it mysterious and compelling, and it’s stayed with me. I still love the mystery and spiritual uplift that kind of service brings, along with traditional hymns and church music.

Cover pretty much all I might say, though in my case it was being taken to very High Church every Sunday from boarding school.

I cherish the lifelong immersion in CoE ritual. And as a cultural thing it’s ever present as the background to a creative career.

To be honest I’ve often felt drawn to a contemplative life - I’ve never met women as alive as those I met while staying at a priory in Oxfordshire years ago - but belief leaves me cold.

No not at all. Convent educated etc etc. Nothing about church appeals to me. Whilst I can wonder at the amazing building skills of the medieval architects and workers the ceremony etc leaves me cold.

Totally. Though I've actually crossed faiths in my attraction to elements of the religious aesthetic. I grew up in a devout Catholic family in a devout Catholic society but very low church. I'm totally at ease with my adult atheism. As a postgraduate at Oxford, I started attending Evensong to hear the astonishing choirs I mean, it's essentially free, world-class performances of choral music to a tiny audience most days of the week! -- and found the (much fancier and more ritualised than my childhood Catholic ones) ceremonies very beautiful. The combination of the language of the Book of Common Prayer, beautiful old buildings, and wonderful music was an absolutely gorgeous experience.

@Forion Have you ever read any Karen Armstrong? Would recommend in particular The Case for God. She’s great on the idea and value of religion as ritual and practice, rather than a set of intellectual beliefs.

When God was a woman is a good book.

Ritual is in our blood and dna.

I live ceremony and ritual. Just not Christian ones!

[quote SSOYS]@Forion Have you ever read any Karen Armstrong? Would recommend in particular The Case for God. She’s great on the idea and value of religion as ritual and practice, rather than a set of intellectual beliefs.[/quote]
She's good. (And her memoirs are excellent -- she was a nun in a pre-Vatican II teaching order before leaving while studying English at Oxford, and then failing her doctorate.)

Yes. I was raised loosely CofE. I say loosely because we were all christened as babies in my family and we did the lord's prayer before bed and sometimes went to church / Sunday school but without any real regularity.

Like most teenagers I struggled to find my place and briefly 'tried to be religious' (mainly reading the bible before bed and planning for my confirmation, which never happened in the end) in the hopes it might offer me something in the way of feeling like I belonged or there was a higher purpose etc but it just didn't work as I realised I couldn't make myself believe in God.

I had my kids in my 20's and didn't know anyone in the area and I found myself wishing I was religious as there were a few local churches with quite active communities and it seemed it would be a 'way in' and offer a chance of building a local support network which I desperately needed at that time but I couldn't bring myself to fake it when the faith just wasn't there. So I gave them a wide berth (and ended up with PND after the birth of my 2nd so possibly not the wisest move!)

I'm in my 30's now and feel a bit more spiritual in the sense of accepting there are things I can't explain and I suppose if I had to define what I believe it would be something leaning towards a pagan mentality but even then, I'm not gung ho about it.

I helped out a local group pre covid and we were tidying up a churchyard- clearing brambles, cleaning up old gravestones and rebuilding sections of dry stone wall etc and we'd go inside the church for a hot drink and our packed lunches etc and I found myself feeling very moved and quite emotional when I went inside the church itself and questioned why that might be but I think it's probably a combination of the buildings themselves being designed to feel that way and also the semi religious upbringing.

I'm raising my kids as atheists in so much as they're aware of the various world religions and we do Christmas and Easter but in quite a secular way.

(And yes, I also love hymns and carols and the ritual of it all.)

Have you ever considered a subconscious element to belief and faith? As in something which does not necessarily have to be engaged with on an intellectual level but rather on a subconscious level?

Of course - I was raised Catholic too. It was an enormous part of my culture in my formative years, it was the calendar around which we lived our lives, the overarching ritual which accompanied birth, life and death. Faith was my grandmother's heart and soul, the cornerstone of her life, and I loved her dearly. And church is where I learned to sing - I used to do 9am mass, run down the road to sing at 10am service at the kirk, then back for half-eleven mass every Sunday.

You can't just forget that - though I do see that as privileged behaviour: the church never did anything bad to me personally so I have no personal reason to hate it or that part of my life. Not everyone is so lucky, and I do struggle with that.

@ButtercupBlue Feeling moved while sitting in the church is hardly surprising - thats how they were designed - to inspire awe and reverence. Even small parish churches have that effect on me. Probably to do with the silence and history too.

I'm currently listening to the BBC Sounds Christmas Chill - A choral Christmas mix. Its just beautiful. I know all the words despite not having attended church (bar weddings and funerals) for forty years.

Hi OP, yes I'm totally with you on this. Although for me the turn to complete atheism is more recent, so I feel a bit "lost" as to how to replace the beautiful masses of Christmas for my children (who are all atheists!!). I took them all to mass when they were young and all attend Catholic schools but none of them believe. However, we miss Christmas mass and I suppose I miss the peace and quiet of our lovely church.

I don't know the solution - where I live they are all pretty devout, so I think it would be wrong to attend at Christmas, when we no longer attend during the year.

Raised godless, I think my brother and I were the only unbaptised kids in our school, but frequently taken to look at boring old cathedrals for history/architecture.
I am, however, interested in art and architecture and can spot a bible story or a saint's iconography in pictures and tell you the difference between a norman and a gothic window and all that.
Still utterly godless though and the rude loud complainer about churches charging entry to visitors

Yes, I am. I acknowledged my atheism about 5 years ago, but have have never been a believer. We weren't a church going family when I was younger. But I've been giving it a lot of thought recently with Christmas approaching, and trying to reconcile my beliefs with my enjoyment.

Church buildings are often wonderful places (as are places of observance for other faiths) - calm, welcoming and often beautiful. I love Christmas, the sense of family and celebration, all the associated traditions, including carols and others with religious significance.

I've also come to the conclusion that it's perfectly possible to combine cultural enthusiasm with atheism - especially in a society where so many of our traditions have their roots in the Christian faith.

Me. Sort of.

I find the ritual and tradition comforting, I like the continuing of traditions that have gone on for years and years and will continue once I'm gone.

I like words in hymns that talk about nature and belief in something lasting, about strength and comfort and solidity. Which is odd because the idea of God is anything but solid. I find something calming and grounding in the church building, I have no idea what or why. It calms my soul in a way nothing else does.

I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, my God is nature and humankind, and the rising and setting of the sun.

I can take or leave Jesus as the son of God and all that.

I'm a 'cradle catholic'. Never believed. However any time my mother drags me to church I always feel so I don't know, relaxed, when I leave. I don't take communion but there's something very grounding about being in a community, following rituals that you've known since childhood that's very comforting.

For me it's mostly the music - listening to Bach's Matthew Passion is the closest I come to believing; the power of that music temporarily suspends my disbelief! But I can and do sing in the local choir, which gives me the chance to enjoy some of the amazing sacred music all through the year, and of course carols at Christmas time. I've never been religious and only went to church when my Nana was visiting and wanted company but generations of human talent have been invested in glorifying God and I don't think it's wrong to appreciate the fruits of all their labour even if I don't share their faith.

Have you ever considered a subconscious element to belief and faith? As in something which does not necessarily have to be engaged with on an intellectual level but rather on a subconscious level?

I don't tend to engage with the subconscious really. I'm very firmly rooted in purposeful thoughts and I felt as though I was constantly lying to myself when I did attend church. I'm not anti religion, but I very much seek the truth in what I can experience as reality, seeing and hearing things etc.

100% atheist but I love church choral music. I sometimes wish I could believe but that lasts seconds only because I know what the rest of the baggage entails.

I don't tend to engage with the subconscious really. I'm very firmly rooted in purposeful thoughts and I felt as though I was constantly lying to myself when I did attend church. I'm not anti religion, but I very much seek the truth in what I can experience as reality, seeing and hearing things etc.

Interesting. So how would you reconcile this with 'loving an aesthetic'? What is it about an aesthetic that attracts you? What concrete function does the form provide? And how does it do this do you think?

Interesting. So how would you reconcile this with 'loving an aesthetic'? What is it about an aesthetic that attracts you? What concrete function does the form provide? And how does it do this do you think?

I'm drawn to the beauty and the peaceful feeling. The quiet and the calm. The coolness of the inside of the buildings and the colours in the stained glass. The candles flickering. Everything is calm and ordered and just seems to feel soothing, particularly in comparison to the chaos of the outside world. I like churchyards because of the trees and plants and they're always quiet and secluded. I think the church appeals to me because of the type of person I am (quiet and introverted).