Any atheists out there who are drawn to the aesthetic of church?

[Forion]

I was a Roman Catholic, but totally struggled with believing in God etc. I gave up going to church years ago, but I still love the Catholic Church, hymns, music, the buildings, prayers, incense etc. I wasn't interested in the social side of things so didn't get anything out of that.

I know some people will say that it's God trying to draw me in, but honestly, I can't believe in any of that even though I've tried I can't force myself and I don't even like other people let alone love them 😄

Anybody else experienced this?

The music as well sounds so amazing and feels calming.

Have a read of :

A history of the goddess from ice age to the bible. by Edward dodge

I'm drawn to the beauty and the peaceful feeling. The quiet and the calm. The coolness of the inside of the buildings and the colours in the stained glass. The candles flickering. Everything is calm and ordered and just seems to feel soothing, particularly in comparison to the chaos of the outside world. I like churchyards because of the trees and plants and they're always quiet and secluded. I think the church appeals to me because of the type of person I am (quiet and introverted).

So you very obviously tangibly experience a feeling of peace and calm which soothes but why do you think churches evoke that? What is, do you think, the physicality in it? The actual physical mechanism whereby these particular surroundings evoke an emotional response in you? In truth what do you think is going on? Is it biological? Or something else?

I agree with PPs that it's definitely possible to be culturally Christian without actively practising. I struggle because I do believe in God, and I believe Jesus existed but I really struggle with seeing him as anything higher than a prophet, and idea of the holy trinity. I have no idea where that puts me on the religious spectrum but I'm most comfortable in C of E and RC churches as I was raised in both.

why do you think churches evoke that?

It's a physical and emotional response to being in a place that feels calm and away from the stresses of everyday life. There's nothing to do but sit and listen, or think, or sing, or just let your mind wander wherever it wants to go. You know roughly what's going to happen and in what order. There's usually nice music. Stress lifts off my shoulders for the hour I'm sitting there. I'm making it sound like a spa day!

Its hard to find that peace elsewhere. In my house dirty dishes catch my eye. On a park bench I'm checking for dogs or kids, or getting distracted by something going on around me. In a cafe I'm wondering if I've been sitting too long and I should buy another coffee. In the cinema maybe? I usually fall asleep in there.

Absolutely. Also Catholic, and LOVE the whole "bells and smells" aspect with a passion, love the Pope, am very interested in church reform (specifically the ordination of women) and much much more, but just don't believe in God. Such a waste! I'd be an amazing Catholic otherwise.

It's a physical and emotional response to being in a place that feels calm and away from the stresses of everyday life. There's nothing to do but sit and listen, or think, or sing, or just let your mind wander wherever it wants to go. You know roughly what's going to happen and in what order. There's usually nice music. Stress lifts off my shoulders for the hour I'm sitting there. I'm making it sound like a spa day!

So it's better than a spa day...? Why would that be?

You might find the Orthodox Christian mystics interesting. They experienced God through meditative prayer practices. They felt they couldn't put that experience adequately into words - their words weren't sufficient enough to describe the experience or their understanding/lack of understanding of God.

I define myself as being culturally Catholic, by the way, because I am. My entire upbrining was infused with Catholicism, I am from a Catholic country, my Mum was a devout believer, I went to Catholic schools, and my university was even partially a seminary. It would be perverse to suggest that I am culturally removed from it.

I miss it, but I just can't convince myself to believe.

I always feel incredibly peaceful as soon as I step into a church. Even in the grounds. I'm not remotely religious but I do get a 'feeling' when I'm in any religious building. Guess they're designed to do just that!

And the more mystical experiences have common ground with other forms of meditation.

So you very obviously tangibly experience a feeling of peace and calm which soothes but why do you think churches evoke that? What is, do you think, the physicality in it? The actual physical mechanism whereby these particular surroundings evoke an emotional response in you? In truth what do you think is going on? Is it biological? Or something else?

Well I suppose calm, peaceful surroundings will help someone feel calm whereas a chaotic environment - such as a busy city centre - will have the opposite effect.

I've wondered if it's anything more, but honestly can't feel anything supernatural going on in the background. I don't know. I suppose sacred pieces of music feel different to non sacred ones even when the structure is similar and follows the same musical notation rules of the period.

I'm a total atheist and always have been, but I get where you're coming from OP. You should read 'Religion for Atheists' by Alain de Botton. It's about how secular society has thrown the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting religion altogether rather than keeping the good bits and getting rid of the bad bits (and the need to actually believe in a deity ). It looks at what the good bits of organised religion are and ways we could recreate them in a secular society.

I've wondered if it's anything more, but honestly can't feel anything supernatural going on in the background. I don't know. I suppose sacred pieces of music feel different to non sacred ones even when the structure is similar and follows the same musical notation rules of the period.

But what do you view supernatural as? The classic definition is something that cannot be explained by science. So your experience, as you describe it, might well easily fit into that.

Absolutely. Also Catholic, and LOVE the whole "bells and smells" aspect with a passion, love the Pope, am very interested in church reform (specifically the ordination of women) and much much more, but just don't believe in God. Such a waste! I'd be an amazing Catholic otherwise.

I know, the actual beliefs get in the way 😄

I don't mean that disrespectfully of course, it's just hard trying to force your mind to accept something you can't believe in.

But what do you view supernatural as? The classic definition is something that cannot be explained by science. So your experience, as you describe it, might well easily fit into that.

It can be explained by science though because when you're feeling relaxed and peaceful your stress hormones decrease so you continue feeling peaceful and when you're away from stressors and horrible noise your stress hormones decrease. When you feel safe your body relaxes and this in turn relaxes the mind. Science has proven that the right sort of musical frequencies can heal the body. I believe all these things are physiological because they work on animals and plants as well as humans. You can kill plants by playing thrash metal at them.

I don't mean that disrespectfully of course, it's just hard trying to force your mind to accept something you can't believe in.

I sort of think you don't really have to. If you accept that your mind / thought processes won't necessarily be able to understand/ process/ verbalise something which is omnipotent especially when you first try to its easier to relax into faith.

I could probably get my head around the concept of God, but it's all the other stuff that's a struggle, that and being expected to love other people 😄

I've been watching documentaries on YouTube about monks and nuns who live a contemplative life and grow vegetables and do crafts to make some money and support themselves. It looks so nice and they'll never have to be part of the rat race or fight over chocolates in Tesco.

It can be explained by science though because when you're feeling relaxed and peaceful your stress hormones decrease so you continue feeling peaceful and when you're away from stressors and horrible noise your stress hormones decrease. When you feel safe your body relaxes and this in turn relaxes the mind. Science has proven that the right sort of musical frequencies can heal the body. I believe all these things are physiological because they work on animals and plants as well as humans. You can kill plants by playing thrash metal at them.

Yes, but how does the particular atmosphere of a church translate into those positive physical changes? As someone who is Christian, I would say the positive physical changes to a person are one way in which God can manifest physically. It's partly why certain music, symbology, art and ritual is described as Holy.

Science just observes the physical manifestation.

I am with you on this one OP, I feel a strong sense of faith, or sense of spirituality, call it what you will. Being in a church or cathedral is a very moving experience for me, and tends to bring me to tears. But I can't cope with having to believe every word of something written down in a book, and I really don't like listening to anyone else's interpretation of what it all means, or being told what to think.

I could probably get my head around the concept of God, but it's all the other stuff that's a struggle, that and being expected to love other people 😄**

Well that is the human condition right there! Christianity doesn't deny it.

I sort of think you don't really have to. If you accept that your mind / thought processes won't necessarily be able to understand/ process/ verbalise something which is omnipotent especially when you first try to its easier to relax into faith.

It's when you're sitting there in church and you're instructed to believe in x,y and z and it doesn't work, that's when your mind rebels and it feels false. You can't accept the unacceptable the cognitive dissonance is too uncomfortable and even distressing.

But Christianity teaches that you have to love other people and that's never going to happen for me. I run away screaming from other people 😄

When you can't follow the rules the result is moral distress.

But I can't cope with having to believe every word of something written down in a book, and I really don't like listening to anyone else's interpretation of what it all means, or being told what to think.

This is it, it's the rules.

You’re allowed to live other people from a safe distance OP- that’s why being a hermit used to be a popular choice 😆